Greetings to the board,
I am requesting your aid in the name of our undying lord.
In our cadre I am the representative of the Omnissiah, a Tech-Priest with the rank of a Magos by now. But there is the time of ascension coming up, bringing with it quiet some difficulties. The talent "Exemplar of Metal" gives the Magos, at rank 13 the "Machine 7" Trait. But in the Core rulebook it is written, that the Machine trait can only reach a maximum of 5. So my GM states that the "Machine 7" is a result of "The Flesh is weak 5" an "Armour Plating" (which can be bought at rank 15). I suggest that the "Machine 7" trait is a paragon talent bonus. So - in my calculation I could still acquire the "Armour Plating" Trait - for a total armour of 9, if my GM is right I could not buy the trait anymore.

Another matter that has come to my attention - regarding "The Flesh is Weak" is the Errata entry:
“The Armour Points gained through this Talent stack with any Armour Points of the armour the character is wearing, and are considered to be Non-Primitive Armour.”
Does this count for all WH40k Systems (namely - DH and RT) and does "Armour Plating" count towards this stacking bonus? So would a Magos with "Exemplar of Metal" and "Armour Plating" have an armour rating of 9 + worn armour.

Rules says it's Machine 7, then it is Machine 7. Ascension 've changed many rules and extend many limits. It's Ascension! Game about a way cooler guys. Returning to rules - if talents says something, thant contradict to normal rules, talent has priority. So you can reach enormous AP - Machine 7 + Armour Plating (2) + Any wear armour (Dragon scale ho!)

Kuririn67 said:

I would agree - but even the Ascension book itself does not. On page 201 the adversary "Magos Vathek" is described (I only read the parts relevant to this thread - talents, traits and total armour value). He is described to have the talent "Exemplar of Metal" and the trait "Armour Plating". But he only has a "Machine" trait of 5 and his total armour value is 7 (including "Armour Plating" - as it is stated in the text).

[it would be great if any official could give a statement on (all of) this - but of course everybody else is welcome to do so as well.]

You d better ask a question to officials by yourself and then tell us what u ve got. Here is the link - http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_faq.asp

The question is out there now. I will tell you the answer if I get one.

Thanks for the link Dictator.

In the absence of an official answer i´d go by the basic rule of all RPGs that specialty rules for certain characters/situations/class abilities/powers/feats/... overrule general rules.

So if the Magos gets Machine 7, it is Machine 7, even if generally you can only go up to 5.

Not to mention that the CoreRulebook can not know about Ascension rules, while Ascension rules know the CoreRulebook and modify several of them. So in general if Corebook and Ascension contradic Ascension wins every time, as it is explicitly an Upgrade to the rules for playing in Ranks 9+.

Still nothing from official site - maybe they are all on vacation ...

I have sent the request for the third time now - there is still no reply ...

The additional 2 traits of Machine might be related to the original printing of Machinator Array in Inquisitor's Handbook as per the Secutor alternate career for Tech-Priests at Rank 4. The Secutor's 500-XP original version gives all the Machinator Array stuff (the stats, expanded mounting options, and drawbacks) as well as +2 armor for all your locations. Effectively, it is Armor Plating and I'd say the Machine 7 aspect of Exemplar of Steel is a compromise on reconciling both of the talents across all books (the original entry, the Ascension entry, and Deathwatch).

Of course, there's also the aspect of that all the Paragon talents are greater than the sum of their parts (in this case it's a +2 Machine trait).

Another related question to the board (since FFG is still not relpying - why would they?!).

In the Errata ii is stated:

The AP (Armour Points) section at the top of page 144 should include the addition: “Any armour that offers 7 or more APs infl icts a –30 penalty on the wearer’s Concealment and Silent Move tests.”

Do the 7, respectivly 9, AP of Machine also count for this rule?!

PS.: @Sigismund: Please read the relevant talent description before you post. The machinator array never gave any armour points. Neither bofore, nor after any Errata.

Hrm, maybe I got my recollections of it mixed in with the Cybernetic Resurrection (500 XP) elite advance option in the same book. Though my disappointment is salved knowing I don't have that -10 to move silently hanging over my head either now that I compare it fully with Ascension.

Considering it's modifying the chapter on worn armor I would venture a "No." in that the traits are outside the relevancy as they're not actual armor (just traits that give you AP). By the wording of "Any armour that offers 7 or more AP", and the inability to truly stack armor for AP, I would venture as well that they're referring to a single piece of armor providing said 7+ AP which would be best-quality carapace and up into powered armor and the nature of it (though, you could possibly house-rule that BQ Carapace is just better shape-designed to deflect rather than better-balanced to incorporate heavier plates).