Imagine if the Galactic Empire within the Star Wars Galaxy decides to invade the Milky Way Galaxy, and is pitted against the Milky Way's Imperium of Man, the Orks, the Forces of Chaos, the Tau, the Eldar, and the Tyrannids.

Conversely, the Imperium of Man within the Milky Way Galaxy decides to invade the Star Wars Galaxy during the Clone Wars, and the Galactic Republic and the Confederacy of Independent Systems have to join forces against the invading Imperium.

Imagine all the people, living life in peace... yoo hoooo hooooooo.

Well, it's not so improbable.

Imagine an human empire born during the age of technology who still having the old scientific knowledge intact and decides to return to home.

Wait where are the trekky red shirt? Who would win between an Imperial guard and an Empire Storm Trooper? arrghh so confusing...

Actually I think Trek would be way up there because they have antimatter warheads....

At Last Forgot said:

"I can picture in my mind a world without war, a world without hate. And I can picture us attacking that world because they'd never expect it".

An exterminatus on the Ewoks' planet would be a good start.

"My Lord Captain, the last of the Promethium has been embarked."

"Very Good, prepare to cast off. Navigator shape a course for Endor".

SOOooooo many Xenos, Witches and Heretics...

...so little Promethium...

I'm sorry, forget guardsmen. Send in a few chapters of Space Marines and the entire republic army, which, IIRC, only numbers what? 200 000? With a million more on the go? The only reason the SM's would lose is by being suffocated by the mound of bodies around them. Vehicles? Well I mean really, the SW universe tends away from things like the Leman Russ, but face it, high explosive rounds are the balls.

Not to mention the ships. An Imperial torpedo is bigger then the millenium falcon. By a lot. A Star Destroyer (Venator class, the standard during the clone wars) is just over a kilometer long, and let's face it, the armaments would be lucky to count as a laser battery by 40k terms. Not to mention the coup de grâce, the fact that Imperial technology tends to avoid leaving a vent directly connected to something so important a quick single anti-fighter weapon can destroy the entire battle station.

Now then, the best part: Jedi. They have great powers, they can casually make you think you want to let them through, and that these are not the droids you are looking for. However, I find it hard to believe that would work on a man or woman who spends every moment fighting off Daemons clawing at his/her soul. Likewise, flinging one about is cool, but blasting their flesh apart with bolts of lightning or boiling their blood until their eyes burn out of their sockets gives Psykers one hell of an edge.

BangBangTequila said:

"Heed these words my son, suffer not the lies of the witches who call themselves 'Jedi' or 'Sith' or venerate the warp inthe guise of 'The Force' for without exception they speak with tongues twisted by the warp and every word drips with poison."

"None shall be given any quarter nor measure of sanctury by any who call Him on the Golden Throne their 'Emporer'."

"The battle prowess of these Jedi is impressive, but no greater than the legions of the twisted and damned, or our own battle psykers. Put you faith in the bolter and the flamer. Go with the blessing of The Emporer, treat no parlay with these witches, and offer only rightous absolultion to these witches!"

newmarduk said:

Assuming there's some kind worm hole or warp rift connecting them then attacking from another Galaxy gives one large advantage against the Imperium, that is the other galaxy has no Astromican and is not naviagable by most of the Imperiums forces. However neither are they much of a threat to the Imperium. The whole Republic Senate seems to have a representive from several thousand planets (assuming 1 per planet, which in at least 1 case is not correct) The imperium conversely has several Millions worlds.

Starwars ships seem to be faster but smaller, more vulnerable and lacking lances and plasma (or vortex!) torpedoes of the same scale. Regardless though the battles in space would be the decider as the Imperial Ground forces show little aptitude for warfare. The fact they are clones is a bonus but half the time to grow to maturity is nothing compared to the power of 1000x more planets is unsurmountable.

The fact they have 2 Sith is negligable, worse if it turns out that Untouchables work against them.

This is of course going by full cannon start wars rather than expanded universe which is basically considered fan fiction by Lord Lucas.

That's just the Imperium, the Orks, Chaos and Tyranids or Necrons would sweep through as if all their birthdays had come at once. For all we know the Tyranids have already destroyed the Star Wars Galaxy prior to starting on ours.

newmarduk said:

This would be more interesting, with more Jedi for one, especially if it was set in the same galaxy during the great crusades. The end result though is SM legions all up in your grill (and possible sisters of silence to seal the deal if untouchables work).

The strategic offensive power of The Empire of Man is severly limited in that it couldnt navigate properly in the Star Wars galaxy, due to the lack of an Astronomicon.

All other aspects of war are strongly in their favor.

• Will to fight.
• Readyness to suffer losses.
• Industrial base (1.000.000 worlds versus a few thousands).
• Culture.
• Number of Soldiers.
• Number of Sith (2) /Jedi (a few hundreds, thousands at best) vs. Sanctioned Psykers & Librarians.
• Last and most important: Secondary Effects of contact. Just like the American Natives were decimated by never before encountered deseases, the Star Wars galaxy wouldnt deal well with the things that travel like rats on Imperial Void Vessels. In abondoned decks, cargo crates, or undiscovered in the crew itself. Chaos Cults, Gene Stealer infiltrations, Ork spores.

Well since there are already some strange freaks who, roughly, calculated, the power output of Weapon Systems and shields for Star Wars and Star Trek i would bet my money on Star Wars, hands down. Granted, a ground combat where Space Marines are involved would be a terrible slaughter, the only one which might be able to hold their own would be jedis, but those are even rarer then Psykers, so Groundcombat should be a definitve win for the Empire. But who cares if your star ships are vastly superior to the huge, cumbersome beasts which have so weak shields that they mostly rely on Armour to protect themselves.

At least Warhammer could offer comparable numbers on Starships unlike Star Trek.

But the biggest problem for Warhammer would be the vastly superior Speed of all Star Wars ships. While Warhammer ships need a random time numbering up to month to just cruise through through a subsector and hundreds of years to cross the galaxy. the empire on the other side is able to cross the galaxy in mere days, maybe even less so they could strike at will. Even better: Their FTL Travel is predictable and you can enter or leave Hyperspace near plants and dont have several days traveltime till you reach it.

Noctus said:

The desease argument is naught since bacta cures everything except one desease which was specifically developed to kill patients which are treated with bacta. And the empire has FAR more Xenos species and should therefore laugh about the deseases the Empire of man brings with them (if any ship ever reaches a system of the empire and lands troops which is unlikely.) and 20k different Alienspecies should have some interesting deseases for the imperial Guard i think.

And dont even get me startet about the technological discrepancies. The Empire of Man looks like Caveman compared to the Empire.

Schwarzie said:

You misunderstood. I´m not talking about actual deseases, but about other effects of contact.

Schwarzie said:

Likewise, though much of the Starwars Empire is wasteland, desert worlds, ice worlds, swamp worlds etc etc. The senate only has about 1000 seats, it possible that many of the industrialised planets don't both to send representatives, but not likely that it's a lot more than that given that they are all unique civilisations, if not actual races.

It seems like the Star Wars galaxy feels far more like the natural distribution of life supporting planets where as the Imperium seems very overpopulated, representative of the millions of years of history covered with numerous civilisations an general terraforming.

Also how many actual star ship producing planets does the Empire have? Kuat, Corellia, Mon Calamari, Where ever the Nebulon-B Frigate comes from (Nebulon). So a few, plus ones that we aren't shown. The Imperium produces some vessels in shipyards at potentially any of it's forge-worlds of which there are more in the Calixis sector than I've mentioned for the whole Empire.

I thought the Star Wars events happened in the far past (a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away..) and 40K in the distant future.

Which is to say a crossover isn't impossible, but the Star Wars universe would've changed a lot by then. Discounting a major screw up by a Tzeenchian sorcerer of course.

I bet on Star Wars, I'm sure even the ships of first Republic were more advanced than those of Imperium, a turbolaser battery is more powerful than lance of Imperium, and actually, the Victory Star Destroyer can use torpedos.

And the production of spaceships in Star Wars is more fast and better than in Imperium.

The vessels of Star Wars work for sure, they haven't hull fool of mutants.

A single Imperial II Star Destroyer with his 50 turbolaser batteries could destroy entire astartes fleets!

Star Wars universe wins hard thanks to their superior space travel technology. A large fleet of Star Destroyers can destroy the entirety of the Imperial Navy in a series of attacks too fast to counter. And if the Death Star was operational at the moment... three words: Terra. Goes. Boom!

Speed is all they have going for them, what with the actual mechanism not being thought about at all, it boast unparalleled bull speeds. Of course they still have to wait about an hour to get into range of Yavin 4. They are also vulnerable to Interdiction, which the Imperium may or may not work out.

The advantage of speed is somewhat reduced by numbers however, as the whole fleet in RotJ seemed to be less than the 50-70 ships that make up the Battle Fleet for each any every sector in the Imperium. This may be only a fraction of what was available but does seem represent everything available at the time.

Also, seeing as they never disclosed their own navigation methods there's no reason to believe they would be any better in the Milkyway than the Astronomican in their own galaxy, at least early on and with Navigators they would have to locate Holy Terra some other way. Nor do we really know how fast they go, just because they don't laboriously show days or weeks of travel.

As for the much vaulted power of a turbo laser, I've seen no evidence that any of the star wars weapons are substantially more powerful than the Imperiums counterparts. Certainly hand held blasters can't shoot throught even light cover, even the small ships they have take hits from each others weapons. If anything it proves that their shields are far better than their own weapons and those shields have not been tested against the weapons of the Imperium.

The Deathstar was able to destroy a planet sure, but it's many times larger than their own ships and every Battleship of the Imperium has the capability of wiping out all life on a planet let alone the Imperiums own super weapons such as a Phalanx.

At it's peak, the empire had over 25 thousands of Star Destroyers . Their conventional weaponry is strong enough that a massed attack can destroy planets (Han Solo made a remark about the possibility of a fleet destroying a planet upon learning that Alderaan was destroyed). Even if the Death Star couldn't exit hyperspace in a position to take a clear shot at Terra, the hour or a few it'd take to position it is still well below the Imperium's reaction window. With Terra gone, it doesn't even matter if the Death Star gets blown up in retaliation, because the Imperium has already lost. Without the Astronomican, the Navy can't pull even the already crappy speed it has now.

I put the universe of 40k more in part with the battlestar Galactica universe.

Starwars and Star trek ships would probably rip open any 40k class...

SW and ST use extremely agile ships able to "warp" at any point and time ina system with 0 danger to them. Hell ST can even fight in the "warp" travel... Meaning they are able to shoot down your craft while in the immaterium... and their good at it...

SW well 1st there is only 2 Sith per gang! There are far more then 2 Siths at any given time in the Empire but there is no Sith Council. You guys are interpreting the sith Rules way to linearly.

Anyway that was an order given by one Sith a while ago, an you can see in the many CANON SW games and books that there is always more then 2 Siths (Vader's apprentice, Mara Jade, Kal Kattarn's nemesis, etc)

I even think Goa'Hulds ship from SG should be abel to take down a BC or even a BS. They actually endurstand and own their techonology...

Oh and SW and ST have gazillions of Storm Troopers and Red Shirts for them to use... they never run out of them in the shows!

This idea had merit until you said, "During the Clone Wars."

I was so excited, too.

Even then the Empire would win due to vastly superior speed.

And of course through technological advancement all the time while the Empire of Man needs 700 years for a minor improvement of a Fighter...

Then there are the 12 Million inhabited planets in the Star Wars Universe.

As with all such discussions this boils down to how the rules of the two different settings relate. If Star Wars ships can cross the whole of the Imperium of Man reliably in a few hours or even days then of course that is a significant advantage. If upon the two galaxies meeting we assume that every opportunistic empire and entity within the crowded 40k galaxy starts rambling in, that is a different matter. If we were to assume that hyperspace is simply the warp for the Star Wars galaxy, for example, but there are no daemons then the moment any Star Wars ships fly around in the 40k end of the Universe they die horribly. Similarly, Daemons probably figure out how to go to this newly discovered, ripe for the picking galaxy full of the naive and ignorant. Soon Star Wars gets to experience everyday life in 40k-land, and their whole civilization goes into the crapper. Since people have been living in the crapper in 40k for thousands of years they are better equipped for such a Sci-Fi Columbian Exchange.

Same goes for everything else. If "half the imperial fleet doesn't have that much firepower" to blow up Alderaan and planet-busting superweapons are the stuff of nightmares and an ultimate deterrant in Star Wars boy do we have a lop sided power balance, with 40k having piles of automated ships dedicated to exterminatus level action. If the force is in fact the warp sans daemons, then introduce daemons and you have little in the way of Jedi left, but probably a lot of people starting to see the wisdom of Imperial propaganda (yes, either one). And if dark eldar raiders, orks, tyranids, etc. all get a toehold into the Star Wars galaxy then there is probably plenty of room for factionalization and general mayhem. Again, the kind that the Imperium is well used to. Not so much the ewoks and gungans.

On the other hand, if Stormtrooper armor blocks las bolts or even bolter fire and imperial Star Destroyers are arbitrarily determined to be capable of punching holes in 40k ships at will then obviously the argument is pretty moot. Alternately, one could claim that the armor on Imperium ships and their powerful "void shield" technology makes them all but impervious to Star Wars weapons fire. After all, 40k is full of ships that last for thousands of years through untold battles. hulks are frequentlyrecommissioned and so forth. In Star Wars ships seem to have a 50% of blowing when entering into a good fight.

So yeah, decide the terms of the relationship between the two settings, how the rules of each respective setting interact, which factions from which setting are doing what, and find someway to make the made up numbers mostly drawn from lesser-canon star wars relate to the made up numbers from everything-is-true-and-nothing-is 40k and then we can pretend to come up with a conclusion.

Other than Starships and Space Marines the two settings are reasonably similar, Storm Trooper armour can stop a few blast bolts but the IG number in the billions. Jedi and Sith are supremely powerful, but so are Greyknights and other Space Marines.

In regards to space travel, the Star Wars hyper lanes were mapped out of the course of thousands of years, travel in them certainly seems faster than Warp travel (and far far safer) but when they come to a new area they are slowed to a crawl as they map it out over years, or are reduced to random unknown jumps.

Whilst Star Wars ships may be faster and more manuverable than Imperial Navy vessels, the Navy has had plenty of experience fighting such vessels thanks to the Eldar and Dark Eldar, who have yet to destroy them wholesale. Whilst both sides have powerful shields the 10s of meters of armour and sheer size of Imperial Navy ships helps soak up a vast amount of fire power, and the relative fragility of Star Wars vessels means it likely needs relatively few hits to disable or destroy them (For reference: An Imperial Patrol Frigate in Star Wars has a crew of around 500, weighs 6000 tons, and its turbolaser batteries have approx. a 50km range, an Imperial Navy Patrol Frigate in 40k has a crew of perhaps 30,000, weighs around 6 million tons and a Sunsear battery has approx. a 180km range going by 10,000km per VU as in the RAW).

Whilst at first the speed and agility of Star Wars vessels would undoubtedly serve them well and get them some wins (although with the strong possiblity of high losses, the Imperial Navy gets to shoot at them from a -lot- further away), in the medium to long term the Imperials have an unbeatable advantage... they can upgrade. Sure it might take time (the AdMech being what they are) but with an extreme threat to the Empire of Man things will no doubt get done faster, as soon as the Imperial navy captures a Star Wars vessel (hello teleporting Space Marines!) they can tear it apart and begin to copy the tech, or hell, capture Star Wars engineers and force them to help. Even a handful of Imperial Navy vessels upgraded with the ability to travel Hyper Space would be terrible for the Star Wars galaxy, each ship can carry Exterminatus weapons and in a handful of weeks decimate the Galactic republic, whilst a similar tactic in reverse would require hundreds or thousands of Star Wars star ships all in the same place focusing their fire power for every planet, and they have a million worlds to go through...).

Short term skirmish, Star Wars wins, long term drawn out war the Empire of Man wins imo.

Agreed Suthiann, I don't see how the republic/empire ships are supposed to jump to key planets and attack them when they don't even have the coordinates to neglected feral worlds. At best they take a random jump and hope they don't end up inside a planet or with a comet inside the ship.

Also, people have said the imperium of man won't be able to navigate in the star wars galaxy, why not? Granted I haven't read alot on the fluff behind the astronomicon, but is there a range limit?

As for ships, we really need to look at the expanded universe in star wars to get a look for the tonnage and armaments of their ships. But the republic and thus early empire doesn't seem to have anything larger then cruisers so how the hell are they going to stop a black templar crusade with battle barges and support cruisers? A fleet vs fleet battle they can't hope to manouver a large amount of ships outside the angle of fire from every ship of the imperium, and both star wars and warhammer seem to favour the old timey ship to ship battles where tonnage (which also correlates to shields and armor) and firepower win the day.

There's also the teleportation technology that the imperium has. A boarding party of terminators inside a republic cruiser means that ship is lost. Going by the movies most of the weapons used by clones/storm troopers are blasters with rocket launchers as their anti armor weapon of choice. Unless they want to fire missiles inside their own ship they don't have much going against a terminator with stormbolter and a power fist.

And then the question also becomes; will the imperium of man view star wars technology as human based or alien and thus heretical? Because if they capture a ship and decide that FTL is A-OK then they might start refitting ships with FTL drives, possibly with FTL coordinates stolen from boarded ships. Controversely, if the republic/empire board a ship there's no databases with FTL coordinates to steal, just a psycher screaming bloody murder.

Clones and to a lesser degree storm troopers seem to have better training then guardsmen, but a blaster seems less powerful then a las gun. A las gun is generally considered weak in 40k because they fight against monsterious aliens or armorclad aliens, but against a human being the fluff is that a las shot can take an army off. A blaster leaves a small scorch mark (yep, age rating is nerfing star wars in this regard).

Vehicles are mostly all walker based in star wars with warhammer having walkers and threads. Now, I can see titans going down from fire from those clone beam artilleri walkers, but an AT-AT squad versus a titan legion? One is basically an armor transport, comparable to a land raider, the other is a walking murder machine