Why is it called simply "the Empire"? Why not the "Empire of Sigmar" or the "Empire of Man"?
The name of the Warhammer Fantasy Empire
Maybe because it's the only one?
For a number of reasons, I'm sure. Here's a few
1) it is the only human Empire in the Old World.
2) The Empire existed before Sigmar.
3) While Sigmar is an important saint/god, and is considered the patron of the Empire, he is not the only god revered nor worshipped.
4) The WFRP game and world is very human, and Empire, -centric. It is centered on the Empire. I expect that Romans in Rome just called their empire "The Empire", rather than saying "The Roman Empire" whenever they are talking about themselves, for example. It is possible that others races call it something slightly different, like "The Human Empire", or "Karl Franz's Empire", or what have you.
newmarduk said:
Why is it called simply "the Empire"? Why not the "Empire of Sigmar" or the "Empire of Man"?
newmarduk said:
Why is it called simply "the Empire"? Why not the "Empire of Sigmar" or the "Empire of Man"?
There are other countries ruled by man, Bretonnia, Telia, Estalia, Araby, etc. I can only assume, like most real countries, there's a good deal of nationalism, so the men of 'the Empire' assume they are THE best.
dvang said:
2) The Empire existed before Sigmar.
Er... No it didn't. Sigmar founded the Empire from his and his tribal allies. Of course, at the time, he was just a man. Only much later did people begin to believe that he was a God.
There are a few real-world examples of non-country state names. The USSR was a union of (Soviet) republics, for example, not a country or nation.
So the Empire was founded as the collective effort of all of the human tribes struggling against the goblinoids and beastmen. At the beginning, it presumably would have been seen by the people not so much as a country, but as a set of alliances and principles by which the humans (non-Empire humans being too far away or too politically insignificant to matter) not only organised themselves, but ruled over the known world in stark contrast to the bitter fighting with the orcs and goblins that had gone before. Early 'Empire' humans would have thought of themselves as belonging to a village, tribe or feudal overlord, etc. And as the collective beat back their enemies and Sigmar proclaimed the birth of an Empire... So people would have thought of themselves as belonging to THE empire too.
Also remember that the humans would have been aware of the Dwarven Empire and Elven Empire which didn't have country/national names either. Of course, most of the time, they would likely just have referred to them as 'the Dwarves' or 'the Elves', but they would have been aware of their Empires. They would have felt no need to describe themselves as the 'human Empire' because it was clear to all that they were human.
Angelic Despot said:
dvang said:
2) The Empire existed before Sigmar.
Er... No it didn't. Sigmar founded the Empire from his and his tribal allies. Of course, at the time, he was just a man. Only much later did people begin to believe that he was a God.
There are a few real-world examples of non-country state names. The USSR was a union of (Soviet) republics, for example, not a country or nation.
So the Empire was founded as the collective effort of all of the human tribes struggling against the goblinoids and beastmen. At the beginning, it presumably would have been seen by the people not so much as a country, but as a set of alliances and principles by which the humans (non-Empire humans being too far away or too politically insignificant to matter) not only organised themselves, but ruled over the known world in stark contrast to the bitter fighting with the orcs and goblins that had gone before. Early 'Empire' humans would have thought of themselves as belonging to a village, tribe or feudal overlord, etc. And as the collective beat back their enemies and Sigmar proclaimed the birth of an Empire... So people would have thought of themselves as belonging to THE empire too.
Also remember that the humans would have been aware of the Dwarven Empire and Elven Empire which didn't have country/national names either. Of course, most of the time, they would likely just have referred to them as 'the Dwarves' or 'the Elves', but they would have been aware of their Empires. They would have felt no need to describe themselves as the 'human Empire' because it was clear to all that they were human.
I would also add that the Empire, as it stands in the days of Emperor Karl Franz, is as much a tinuous alliance of powerful Elector Counts as it has been from the founding. Remember, the Empire was at civil war for centuries during the time of three emperors and from my reading the Empire is at risk almost every time power has to be passed to a new Emperor.
@Angelic Despot:
My intent was before Sigmar was "deified". Sorry if that wasn't obvious.
dvang said:
@Angelic Despot:
My intent was before Sigmar was "deified". Sorry if that wasn't obvious.
Ah, yes, I see what you mean! As in 'that's why it woudn't make sense to be called 'the Empire of Sigmar', or something else with religious overtones.
The lore is drawn from medieval 16C Europe, and where the Empire sits in the Old World (TM/R/whatever), is/was where the Holy Roman Empire (HRE) used to sit. During this time, those members of the HRE were called Imperial something or other. The heraldic use of the Eagle was probably used during this period as well. So Games Workshop essentially robbed history to fuel a familiar fantasy war ![]()
And funnily enough, the HRE was a group of city states/territories that used to elect an Emperor.
The rest of the human nations are largely their medieval peers -
Estalia - Spain,
Tilea - The Italian City States (and all that Machiavellian goodness)
Brettonia - Early feudal France
Araby - The area of the Crusades
Nippon - the Far East
And numerous others...