A quick question on timing and resolution that cropped up last night in our group.

After a discussion that ended without agreement we resolved to play the game out in the usual agreed fashion of odds/evens that our group uses (i lost, curse those dice)

The discussion boiled down to when a challenge ends and the response triggers.

Cersei:
Response: After you win an Intrigue challenge in which Cersei Lannister participated,choose and kneel up to X non-Army characters. X is the number of cards you control in Shadows.

Vs

Frozen Moat:
Challenges: Kneel Frozen Moat to choose 1 attacking character. Until the end of the challenge,treat that character as if its printed text box were blank.

I argued that the challenge was not concluded until the end of framework window 4 (after renown is awarded and the cycle starts again for any other challenges the player may have) but Cersei's response would trigger at step 1of the same framework window and was thus covered by frozen moat.

My opponent argued pretty much the reverse, that frozen moat stopped at framework 4-1 and Cersei triggered after this.

Any wizardly guru able to help us out for future session?

Regards,
Underworld.

Underworld40k said:

I'd advise you to take a closer look at the flowcharts. You need the Challenge Phase flowchart that you are, I think, referring to, and you need the Framework Action Window flowchart two pages before.

The Framework Action Window in question consists of four Framework events:

1. Determine winner of challenge
2. Challenge result is implemented
3. Reward for unopposed challenge is awarded
4. Renown is awarded

As you can see from the flowchart titled "The Framework Action Window", each of these framework events resolves before there's a chance to trigger responses other than save/cancel responses (there's an arrow from step 3 Framework event resolves back to step 1 Framework event initiates). After these four framework events resolve, Passive effects resolve (step 4). Only thereafter in step 5 comes the chance to trigger non-save/cancel Responses, and this is when Cersei's Response would be triggered.

Now, regarding your question: Any effects that last for the duration of the challenge, like Frozen Moat or Brienne of Tarth or Longship Iron Victory, are active right through step 6 of the Framework Action Window (Moribund cards leave play). So, if Cersei got blanked by Frozen Moat, she would not be able to trigger her response, because that would happen in step 5, while FM is active until step 6 is done.

HTH.

Brilliant, thanks for the response