Not all the magic works the same way. While there are different ways to collect the most magic there are also several methods for using spells, formulas for conceptually distinct spell usage. To reflect this diversity there are magical theorems.
Theorems are an alternative way of looking at magic, a formulation as a defined style and not reflected within the overall magic system. In fact, the very basic system is but the most widespread and used theorem, but there are others. None is "better" or "worse" than others they simply have their own advantages and disadvantages, to enhance some aspects casting and hurting others.
From the moment a character endowed with mystical abilities is capable of casting spells, you must decide whether to use the general theorem of magic or if instead to use a different one. This is much more important than it seems, since the characters can only use one theorem as their approach to magic.
Naturally, this does not mean they cannot know other systems of magic, but they cannot gain the advantages of those systems. For example, a great Voodoo sorcerer could know how to use natural magic or shamanic magic, but not be able to benefit from the special rules of both theorems.
This section describes four different theorems;
Onmyodo, Voodoo, shamanism, and natural Magic.

Onmyodo

Onmyodo formulation is a system of magic that mixes control of the natural facets of the world and occult practices. It originated in the eastern lands, where the existence of magic was directly attached to the soul flow and the material world. Its practitioners believe that the
energy flows influence all that lives and are based on the interrelationship five elements: wood, fire, earth, metal, and water. Controlling the energies of these principles the mage can influence the rules of existence. The result of such control is what they call "magic."
Practitioners of Onmyodo system, which generally known as Onmyoji, manage power by science of complex rituals. Rituals usually inscribed on parchment as formulas
using language both supernatural and divine, giving it magic, to be used as a means to alter the balance of the elements almost automatically.
Consequently, this theorem’s power use is that spells are prepared in advance by its practitioners, enabling those who carefully prepare their spells to carefully cast magic much faster and more easily than would a more traditional magician.

The Ofuda , also called Shinpu or talismans by some practitioners, are the main element of onmyodo. These scrolls are rituals in which there are supernatural symbols drawn, able to invoke the primal forces of nature. With them onmyoji prepare and launch spells, Ofuda could be called the keys to onmyodo without which its practitioners would have their powers greatly reduced.
Each Ofuda is created with a particular purpose, conceived and composed to cast a spell. To this end, drawing on paper the ritual symbols and spell chords imbued with a portion of their mystic power. When casting a spell the witch throws the Ofuda in the air or watchs it disappear in his hands, while the symbols change shape powered by the magical power of the sorcerer.

Creating a Ofuda: Creating a Ofuda is very laborious and often complex, although necessary for onmyoji to use their spells. Initially its only requirements are paper and ink to write, but it is possible to use other different items as long as possible to draw symbols on them. The first thing to do is decide the spell you want to join and then do an ability check Art(calligraphy) the difficulty is determined by the spell's level, as shown applying modifiers to the roll based on time spent. After successfully writing the symbols, then the sorcerer must enter in a quantity of Zeon equivalent to half the value of the spell at Base level, which seals
within the talisman spell (you can not enter more than that amount Zeon, or otherwise the Ofuda be burned away.).
The Ofuda are tied to onmyoji that made then and feed off the power of their souls. Consequently, a magician reduces their maximum Zeon pool value temporarily in an amount equivalent to which has been introduced in Ofuda you created. That is, a warlock
would create twelve different Ofuda combinations worth 250 points of Zeon, would also reduce his maximum Zeon pool 250 points.
When a Ofuda is consumed casting a spell or if destroyed for any reason, the creator raises his Zeon maximum back(though not the Zeon points spent).

Spell Level Difficulty
2-20 40
22-30 80
32-40 120
42-50 140
52-60 180
62-70 240
72-80 320
82-90 440

Time Spent Bonus
One Minute -40
Five Minutes -20
30 Minutes 0
One hour +20
One Day +80
One Month +120

Spell casting
When the wizard gathers Zeon to cast a spell while holding an appropriate Ofuda they automatically obtain a number of Zeon equal to what was invested in the Ofuda(ie, half of its zeon value at Base level). This action consumes the Ofuda immediately, it burns or breaks in a manner appropriate to its function.
An Onmyoji with a MA 30 that chose to cast the spell of dark discharge (Cost Base 50) with an appropriate Ofuda would automatically accumulate the 25 points of Zeon that had previously been entered in this Ofuda. Of course, given that Ofuda are supernatural acts of power, nothing prevents a warlock from using an Ofuda created by another sorcerer, despite not having been the one who created the talisman. The action of drawing a Ofuda considered part of launching a spell and, as such, never reduces the accumulation of the caster.

Spells maintained with Ofuda
A spell cast by an appropriate Ofuda reduces the cost of maintenance by half. Such spells do not consume the talisman immedialy, but continues to exist until the magician wants to end the effect. The magician does not need to be in contact with the Ofuda to keep the spell active. If the Ofuda is destroyed, the spell is broken immediately.

Onmyodo magic without Ofuda or inappropriate Ofuda
If a practitioner of Onmyodo does not have a Ofuda he can only cast spells at their base level for double the Zeon cost.
If a Onmyoji need to use a different Ofuda for a spell that
intends to launch, you can do as long as the Ofuda is for a spell from the same path of higher level. In this case you can cast the spell at any level at twice the Zeon, you also do not gain the Zeon bound in the Ofuda.

So, a character can know the standard system and another theorem, but he can use only one at time, right?

Sebashaw said:

After I make it through the whole section and have a better idea on the big picture, I'll take a stab at this question. ATM I don't think I would be able to give an accurate answer.

VooDoo

Voodoo is a magical theorem based principles of sorcery and control of the supernatural ties that bind all that exists. Its basics teach that each of the things in creation is intertwined with other elements and the stronger the bond the easier it is to access it. This applies equally to people as concepts, or to a lesser extent, even the elements themselves. For
example, a sorcerer can use these links to control the element of Fire and intermingled with other things to cast a spell of fire. The "concepts" that Voodoo magicians commonly reference are represented by spirits. These beings have names that embody the most extreme principles, personifications, or feelings. Some believe they are actually the souls of people who walked in the mortal world of antiquity and whose spirits still reside in the Soul Flow, while others say they are simply existential forces to which some have decided to name. Either way Voodoo practitioners are bound to them by their magic when they want to cast a spell and use their abilities to alter the essence of things.
Voodoo is exceptionally effective in spiritual spells that aim to affect other individuals. And
Moreover, taking advantage of their domination of the bonds, may even
bind spells directly to the soul of people, sometimes making it unnecessary to cast spells at a higher level. However in contrast they are weak when working with attack spells.

Gaia Origins
The birth of Voodoo is difficult to define, but generally its design is attributed to the D'anjayni. As one of the primary races, the gray men who used their own world view to create the systems bonds that characterizes this practice. The following millennia it was a hidden style for teachers of the supernatural arts. It was only a little over seven centuries when
a small group of humanity gained access to it. Hidden among men in what is now known as the New World, many D'anjayni have elected to teach some principles mixing their
mystical knowledge with their beliefs and customs.
It is for this reason that the Voodoo is at once both a religion and supernatural practice, in which priests are also the most powerful wizards. While over the years, the belief
survived, living with Christianity (or even mixing with it), the practice became somewhat of a secretive supernatural practice, spreading quickly
to other corners of Gaia.

Physical Links
There are numerous objects and elements linked to specific people.
This is because when something goes that long in possession of a
individual or has been part of his body (as in the case of hair or
blood), it is reminiscent of that spirit to which they belong or belonged to. A sorcerer who uses this theorem uses these links to let their spells affect their targets, empowering them when using such "links".
When one casts a spiritual spell using Voodoo increase the difficulty of MR test consuming the physical links charging it with energy. You can use any number of physical links
when casting a spiritual spell, but never two of the same type The only requirement is that the witch must have them in his possession, which generally means being in direct contact with them.
This ability only works when used on spiritual spells with one target; the links do not change the MR difficulty of spells that affect multiple people at once.
If a practitioner of this theorem uses the wrong physical link to launch the spell (for example, if you use the blood of a person other than the one on who is being targeted), the spell automatically fails.

The list of the most common physical links is as follows:
Hair: Represents to have a few strands of the victim (not useable with only one or two hairs.) Usually, it is necessary that it has been no more than a few months since the hair was last in contact with your target.
Blood: Having some blood represents the target of the spell. Similarly to what happens with the hair, if the blood is dry and it has been more than a month since it left the body of the victim it loses its link properties.
A piece of a body: Represents to have some part (a finger,
an eye, an ear ....) of the victim. Contrary to what happens to hair
or blood, a piece of the victim's body never loses its qualities as a link until it is used.
Personal items: This link refers to something they owned, a timeless object that has been owned by the victim or been in contact with her for a long period of time. Normally,
to activate the power of the link need to destroy the object, but if it can not be broken or especially resistant than it is considered to "consume" the tie or connection with the target. This
modifier can not be stacked with the More personal items.
More personal items: As above, except that the object is something vital to the victim, a fundamental device by which has a fundamental relationship.
A Portrait: A picture of great quality. The sorcerer can only make use of a portrait
as a link once per person. Once used, you may never benefit from the portrait one to cast spells on the victim again.
A family member: It represents having a close family member present at the time the spell is cast. Some examples include his wife, brothers, sons, fathers ... This cannot be stacked with the remains of a family member.
Remains of an immediate family member: The sorcerer consuming part of the remains
a relative of the character, such as bones, hair, dried flesh ...

Binding Ritual
Voodoo's specialty is to exploit links between people with external objects, through such links, directing casting a spell that automatically reaches the target. Therefore, if the witch has to have at least one physical link, to consume in the casting of a spiritual spell. This means that, contrary to general rules, a magical projection test to reach you isn’t needed, but
spell automatically exceeds the target's defense and forces him to make the MR test. To do this, the wizard should be near his target and have a direct line of sight to him.
Unfortunately, using a spell in this fashion has disadvantages. First, the target gets +40 to their MR. Second, the sorcerer does not get the bonus to the MR difficulty from the link used to launch the spell, but additional links can be used to increase the difficulty.

Physical Link MR Diff Bonus
Hair +10
Blood +20
Body Part +20
Personal Item +10
More Personal Item +20
Portrait +10
Family Member +30
Remains of Family Member +10

Binding Ritual over long distances
If the target is not even in sight (that is, that is over a large distance), the wizard can still cast a spiritual spell automatically on the target consuming a physical link, but the bonus to MR increases to +100. In addition, the wizard will
need to know the name and physical description of the target. If you meet these requirements, must perform a ritual of one hour for every 25 miles that separates the mage from the
target. Naturally, if you do not know how far away the victim is it shall be at your discretion to determine the duration of the ritual.
Such spells can not affect a person if they have taken refuge in an area sealed to the supernatural.

Weak attacks: Voodoo's style is not really for direct combat and other
Consequently, all attack spells have their final damage reduced by half, rounded up in groups of 5.

Shamanism

The shamanic theorem is based on influencing higher powers, asking or forcing them to produce different supernatural effects.
Its practitioners use mystical powers to attract spirits, and through
them, transforming their power into spells. In a way, it could said that practitioners are more of a mystic than actual sorcerer who casts spells. Many occultists claim the system is intrinsically linked to invocation, but using spirits to manifest magic in the world.
Shamans handle the powers of the spirits associated with the
different areas they are in. Depending on the strength and affinity of the local powers are able to use various different spells.
Consequently, this theorem is characterized by variability in the shamans power depending on the location where they perform spells, spells may be extraordinarily stronger in some places to even being unable to use magic in others.

Gaia Origins
The shamanic magic has existed in Gaia since its beginning, and is believed it was born as a result of the agreements that were lost to time with the great spirits and gods, or even forgotten beings.
Although it has always been less used than traditional magic, it is the
second most used system in both the Old and New world.
Currently, its practitioners are the most commonly priests Lilium
of Alberi and some wizards who have achieved the title of Saints
in the Church of Abel, as it is considered they derive their powers from angels and
the messengers of God.

Spiritual zones
Depending on the spiritual power of the area a shaman is in, they get different benefits or disadvantages when casting. Below is a list of such areas, as well as modifications
the characters get to their skills while they are inside.

Outstanding Spiritual Power Zone
An area of this degree is a power point, exceptional location so powerful that the sorcerer feeds on the magic of the spirits more than his own. Typically, these Dragon Lines (node, waypoint), or some ancient site in which the greatest minds are concentrated.
Consequently, the powers of the shamans
are much greater than in any other place, and apply a multitude of benefits to their spells.
First of all spells of the sorcerer become spiritual energy, so they are invisible to those unable to see spirits, no matter what the rules for the spell say. For example, one could launch a
fireball, but the flame would be invisible even for someone can see magic magic. Second the character spends only half that of Zeon as if it had the Meta magic advantage Unlimited Zeon(you have to gather the full amount but only half is spent). Finally, a +30 bonus applies to the shaman’s magic projection and MA
Call Spirits: Not applicable
Cost: None.

Powerful Spiritual Zone
An area is rich in powerful spiritual forces and spirits of the supernatural, a place where magic is accumulated in an orderly fashion without bleeding over to the environment. Taking advantage of its forces, a Shaman can cast spells spending only half of Zeon as if it had the Meta magic advantage Unlimited Zeon(you have to gather the full amount but only half is spent).
Call Spirits: Powerful Spiritual Zone
Cost: 500 Zeon.

Spiritual Zone Normal
Generally, most places in the world are loaded with spiritual strength of a medium grade, where a considerable number of spirits are hovering around. In these places the shaman can
cast spells normally, without applying any special modifications. Its only limitation is that it is unable to use arcane degree spells.
Call Spirits: Powerful Spiritual Zone
Cost: 200 Zeon.

Weak Spiritual Zone
A weak spot is a place where spirits reside. In it, a wizard selects a spell path and spends 10 Zeon points to be able to start casting spells from that path, it takes a moment to make contact with supernatural forces (which can be extremely dangerous if you get a sudden attack).
Once you have done, you cast spells as normal for at least an hour, but these can only be base level.
Call Spirits: Spiritual Zone Normal
Cost: 200 Zeon.

Empty Spiritual Zone
A empty area is a place utterly devoid of spirits, emotionally dead a place where they can not live. Consequently, a shaman sorcerer does not have the ability to link with the forces that give it its powers, thus being unable to cast spells in a place.
Call Spirits: Weak Spiritual Zone
Cost: 1,000 Zeon.

Call Spirits
A shaman can use his powers to attract spirits to the area where he is. Consumeing his energy, the supernatural power causes the spirits to feel it and manifest their presence. The cost for doing this is listed in the description of the spiritual areas. After consuming the magic, the atmosphere is converted gradually into an area of a higher grade. The change takes
between one and five turns to occur, lasting after several hours (sometimes even days), giving the shaman all the relevant benefits. After that time, the area returns to its previous state.
Spiritual Zones always keep its original condition even if someone has already called spirits in it, so can not be increased beyond a higher level than normal.

Spiritual Affinity
In addition to the strength of spirits it is important to determine whether
the powers of the areas are similar or opposed, depending on
this factor, there are three possible consequences:

Kindred spirits
If the spirits of an area are related to the character and his magic, all spells cast in that place are automatically improved one level. This advantage allows you to overcome the limits imposed by the level of spiritual power for the area where you are. For example,
if the shaman cast a base level spell in a spiritually weak place
but the spirits were akin to it, the spell would be mid-level, although
usually there would only cast spells of base level.

Neutral spirits
If the spirits of an area are neutral to the character and his magic, than
do not apply any special modifier to their spells or accumulations.

Opposing spirits
If the spirits of an area are angry with the character or are related to opposing magic all the spells that you use in that place are a level lower, and if they are base level fail to function.

Necromancy: Cannot be cast with this theorem, in fact its followers cannot even learn necromancy.

Natural Magic

While the power of magic is the ability to recreate itself in reality and alter its rules, is not always necessary to do so through spells. Those who have the gift can mimic the effects of
innate spells, using the power that comes from their souls to change the order of things at will. This capability is called natural magic.
I really can not say that natural magic is a system of
magic structured as such, for without making magic, spells or rituals, how can we properly speak of magic. This is a wild magic, chaotic energy in its purest form that
characters focus, sometimes even unconsciously, to do things that are impossible. In fact, most wizards begin using magic naturally as children, and it is not
until they learn to formulate their energies through spells that they become true sorcerers.
Unfortunately, despite the enormous freedom that is mystical energies in a pure state, the fact is that natural magic is extremely chaotic and unpredictable, and the effects they cause are less potent than when done through spells. However, natural mages enjoy the advantage that it does not require supernatural knowledge; any person can use his powers without having to learn complicated spells.

Optional Rule: A Step Back
If the GM allows, a character that uses spells in a traditional fashion, in a desperate situation may try natural magic to achieve an unnatural effect. This is not really a style of magic itself, but a wizard can always "go back to their roots." However, not being accustomed to
using magic in such an uncontrolled fashion, the character suffers a -4 to their POW control rolls.

Natural magic effects creation
To create a natural magic effect the first thing to do is to determine the level of what we want to achieve. For this, the player must explain to the GM what he wants to achieve, depending on how powerful an effect it is it will be assigned a level between one (the weakest) to five (the highest grade powerful). This base score is further modified by the range and duration of the effect. After we have the finial difficulty a POW control test must be made.
As an optional rule, the GM may choose to not reveal the base difficulty when a character wants to provoke a certain effect, thus, the consequences are much more unpredictable for the player who does not know exactly what the risks are.

Level Control Base
1 14
2 18
3 24
4 30
5 36

Distance Modifier
Touch +0
Object +1
Projection 0 +1
Projection +40 +2
Projection +80 +3
Projection +120 +4

Time Modifier
Instant +0
5 Turns +1
1 Minute +2
10 Minutes +3
1 Hour +4
1 day +5

Touch: For the effect to work is necessary for the witch to physically touch the person or thing you want to affect.
Object: Same as touch, but to work enough that contact with an object that is in contact with the
caster, such as a sword or a similar item.
Projected + X: The effect is projected normally by following
the general rules of spiritual spells, attack or defense
(depending, of course, the nature of the effect in question).
As a Magic Projection skill the character uses double its presence its Dexterity bonus, which is
added to the value determined by X. For example, a 3rd level character wanting +40 to projection would have a finial Magic projection of 120.

Casting of natural magic effects
Natural mystic effects work in a way very similar to spells. Once the character has the difficulty of the POW control check, he must state how much Zeon to release. The amount of mystical energy that has spent is of enormous importance as it greatly facilitates the execution of effects;
the more invested, the better the bonuses to the POW control check. This Zeon is gathered with MA in the normal fashion for casters.
Finally, when the pitcher believes he is ready make a POW control check against the difficulty of the effect to see if this works or not. Depending on the outcome, the mystical effect can happen or not. If successful, the effect is activated like a normal spell, and the caster must pass a Magic Projection test with the bonus gained previously.

Zeon Spent POW Control Bonus
0+ -8
20 + -4
50+ +0
100+ +2
150+ +4
200+ +6
300+ +8
400+ +10
500+ +12
750+ +14
1000+ +16

POW control result Effect
3+ The effect is successful, without damage to the caster
1+ The effect is successful, loses a fatigue point for each point over 0
0+ The effect is partially successful, weaker than expected
-1 to -4 The effect is fails, loses a fatigue point for each point under 0
-5 to -8 A negative opposite effect, ½ total zeon lost, -80 all action penalty (fades 10 an hour)
-9 or worse The effect is a total failure, the caster is unconscious for a day for Each point under 0

Limits of Natural Magic
There are limits to natural magic and its effects.
Time Limit: None of the magical effects can have permanence greater than one day. Unless the effect generally can not be turned back (killing someone, the destruction it may have caused) any alteration to the rules of reality will automatically return to its natural state at the end of the time period determined by the mystical effect.
Limited conditions: Can not be cast on a target more than once a day. For example,
if a magician uses a healing effect to heal life points to a person, he could not reuse it on that person until it has been a whole day.
Limit of Nature: The beings created by magic can use natural magic.

Specialties
Depending on the nature of his character, a player can
choose to Link a specific supernatural principle to facilitate effects related cast by the mage. By doing so they apply a +2 to POW control tests to effects related to the link, and apply a change of -2 to all others. The different specialties that are available to the characters are:
Creator: It is the power to make dreams reality. A character who specializes in this principle will derive benefits from their mystical powers when trying to create items from scratch.
Destroyer: Most types of attack are linked to this principle. As its name suggests, a character linked to this principle obtains a mystical bond to their POW control test when trying to destroy things.
Transmuter: The power to alter things creating something different, like turning lead into gold or petrify a living being. Those linked to this principle get a bonus when trying to transmute something into a different things. Also applies to moving objects.
Controller: This power represents the control of the will of the
living, which allows the caster to handle them at will as
puppets, and the manipulation of feelings and emotions. A character may get a bonus if you try to control actions or feelings.
Animist: This principle reflects those powers related to manipulation of souls and the supernatural world. Allows you to see more than most, and to manipulate the essence of the souls of others. A character akin to that power always get a bonus to try to manipulate
elements related to the souls or rules of existence.
Healer: This principle reflects the curative and healing abilities,
that allow a character to heal others. Whenever the character question
damage to heal or recover from negative to someone else, get a bonus
their POW control test.
Elementalist: This is the power to command the elements and all
related to them. Create fire, make it rain or raise a storm
are examples of what could easily make an Elementalist. A
character can choose to specialize in one element and get
a +4 instead of +2, but in so doing, has no link in using the other elements.
Illusionist: Collect the effects related to the manipulation of
worldview of others.

Although it is the Game Director who must determine what the level effects that both the players and the other characters used in this section here are recommended values and examples of the five possible levels of power.

Level one effects are extremely small and insignificant
that have little impact on the environment. It could be
light a candle (elementalist), a drag light object on the ground
(Transmuter), cause tingling in the back someone (Controller), or slightly relieve chronic pain (Healer).

Level 2 effects, such as creating a shield of magic (creator) illusory altering of the appearance of a person (Illusionist), or seeing the aura of a person (Animist)

Level 3 effects, such as burning a house or makeing it rain (Elementalist), cure natural disease (Healer), launch a powerful attack power (Destroyer) or cause
intense fear in a group of people (Controller).

Level 4 effects are considerably larger and powerful, such as a frozen lake (elementalist), creating the illusion that a
town is deserted and uninhabited (Illusionist), Creating
a portal to The Wake (Animist) or convert to a person
a normal monster spawn (Transmuter).

Level 5 effects are of enormous proportions, that allow a word to kill a person
(Destroyer), cause a tsunami (Elementalist), raise a mountain out of nothing (Creator) or make a person who has just died and whose spirit hasn’t joined the soul flow back to life (Healer).

Level Damage Area Shield MR Attribute
1 20 n/a 40 80 4
2 50 5m/5yd 150 100 6
3 100 15m/16yd 500 120 9
4 150 50m/54yd 1000 160 12
5 250 250m/273yd 2500 180 16

Usual effects
Damage: The base damage should produce a maximum effect
if it was used to create an attack against a single target. If it is a healing spell, twice this value
should be used to determine how many LP is healed.
Area: It's maximum range that could cover the effect on that level. in
If combined with a damage or an effect to produce an attack or produce a state, damage or MR should be considered one level less.
Shield: Resistance points of a shield.
RM: The MR often needed to overcome an effect of that level.
Attribute: The maximum value of an attribute produced in an effect (Example: Max STR for moving or grappling)

Sebashaw said:

K as close as I can tell you pick the base method, OR one of these four. That is how you use magic, while you could learn voodoo, or pick up shamanism its more of a theoretical knowledge not something you can implement yourself but maybe teach.

The text reads like this
“Not all the magic works the same way. While there are different ways
that collect the most varied types of power, there are several
methods of using her spells, formulas for conceptually distinct
run the same spells. To reflect this diversity is what
Theorems are magical.
Theorems are an alternative way of looking at magic, a
formulation as defined style and different that can not be reflected
within the overall system of spells and incantations. In fact, the very
basic system is but the most widespread and used theorem, but
therefore the only one. None is "better" or "worse" than others;
simply have their own advantages and disadvantages,
enhance some aspects of it and hurt others.
From the moment a character endowed with
mystical abilities is capable of casting spells, you must
decide whether to use the general theorem of magic or if
instead uses a different one. This is much more
important than it seems, since the characters only
one can use Theorem, it is their approach
spells they know. Naturally, this does not mean
know other systems of magic, but could not use the
these special rules. For example, a great sorcerer could
vodoun know how to use magic or shamanic, but not be
benefit from the special rules of both theorems.
This section describes four different theorems;
Onmyodo, Vodoun, shamanism and natural Magic.”

Jtest said:

So, the answer to my question is NO.

Being able to use multiple of these at once would be overpowered, especially original and onmyodo. But I would allow a wizard to switch between the styles the same way they switch between classes-plan for it and spend 10-20 DP (from "secondary DP") 2 levels later to switch. That way characters could try out other styles, but not make them overpowered.

I can see that. And I've got one player looking forward to checking out Natural Magic if he gets the chance with a different character. Thanks for these, Jtest.

On natural a magic...aren't these POW control checks really high?

If you put as high of a POW as possible then at level 6...(13 at level 1, +1 every 2 levels, so 13+3=16) you get a result of 1d10+16=17-26 (unless there are special rules for scores over 10 and or rolls of 1's and 10's that has never been explained to me.) and on average is a 22, or a -2 on a instant touch effect of level 3 for 50Zeon, or a 30% chance of working weaker than expected (hereafter reffered to as type 3 result), 20% chance of working as expected but losing fatigue (type 2), and a 0% chance of working well(type 1). If you want a long-range attack (+1 to POW dificulty) and spend 100 Zeon (+2 to POW check) that's a 40% chance of type 1 success, 30% chance of type 2 success, and 10% chance of working with type 1 success.

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not needing INT to cast spells alone makes this worth it, or maybe the ability to make any effect you want makes this that much better. Still seams really hard to cast just about anything...

Not to mention only being able to cast the same spell once every 24 hours also seems...problematic...thoughts?

Although that's really minmaxed build...you can actually start with 15 POW. Buy +3Pow, then Elan 3 with Erebus (supposed you have starting Pow10). If you're Duk'Zarist / Sylvain / Deva / Vetala(at night only) you can actually begin the game with Pow16 (or so I would rule it, anyway).

That's pretty much insane, of course...

Unfortunently this does not address the problem, as that mine was already fairly min/maxed and still couldn't do anything very cool...but yours does create a very nice enemy for my players to fight.

Which makes me have another question: How does Natural Magic work with The Incomplete Gift?

I think it works as usual, you don't use the rules of Incomplete Gift.

I'd rule out that with the Incomplete Gift you don't have enough "magic" to be able to use it "naturally" and you have to use a more structured approach...simply not allowing guys with the incomplete gift to get that theorem...

Elric of Melniboné said:

As I read it that is the exact opposite of how it is suppose to work-Natural Magic is the basis of other magic, not the higher form of magic. the optional A Step Back alone shows this is a simplified version. It is weaker and harder to use than other forms of magic. If anything Incomplete Gift could be argued to only work with Natural Magic, I can't thematically (or really mechanically) explain why someone with a weaker connection to magic could not use magic in it's simplest and purest form.

Lia Valenth said:

I would respectfully disagree.

the optional rule is to give a rule similar to the one stated at the beginning of AE, in that if a magician wants to create an effect that they do not have a spell for, they can try to cast the spell (or in this case make the effect) at a penalty to their abilities.

Secondly, Natural magic is in no way "less powerful" than the standard theorem of magic. While magic allows for creativity in the system, this takes that to an almost headache inducing degree. The more creative you are with effects, the more powerful this theorem is.

For example, level 3 effect can have an area attack that targets only enemies with the ELE AT and heals allies for double the standard amount.

I would love to see any spell do that and not cost 100+ zeon.

Additionally with natural magic you do not need to buy projection, or path levels, AT ALL. This is a major point savings and makes natrual magic very very good to some.

Also, mechanically natural magic cannot work with limited gift. With the limited gift you must make a pow check after every spell cast based on the level of the spell.

Since natural magic doesn't have spells or spell levels, how does that make sense?

Apologies for harshness in language but it doesn't seem like you have thought your argument through.

ilovecheese1 said:

yet again I disagree, and here is why;

1) I do not know the start of what it says in the AE as that I can't read spanish, however A Step Back states this is a wizard, "Going back to their roots". However it is the opening paragraph of Natural Magic explaining what Natural Magic is where I have to disagree the most, "In fact most mages begin using magic naturally as a child, and it is not until they learn to formulate their energies through spells that they become true sorcerers...Natural Magic is extremely chaotic and unpredictable, and the effects they cause are less potent than when done through spells." Where it not for the fact that Natural Magic is more basic, harder to use, and weaker than normal spells it would be overpowered. But as that Incomlete Gift gives you less of an ability with magic instead of more of an ability there is no thematic reason to disallow it.

2) As far as your example-an attack that hits an area healing allies and harming enemies...you did not do the math. That ability has a difficulty of 25, which means that at POW 15 you need to spend at least 200 Zeon to have a decent chance of it even working (1d10+15=16-25, so spending 50 Zeon (+0) gives a 10% chance of it working to a weaker than expected. By spending 200 zeon you have a 1d10+15+6=22-32 giving you a 60% chance of it working, with a 30% chance of it working well.) and that is assuming your using Projection +0 (which gives you 2x your Presence, which should have less than a 10% chance of actually hurting any enemy that is a threat) and as I read it by combining area, damage, and heal the damage/heal should be two "levels" lower than the level of the spell (because just damage lowers it by 1 level, so 3-2=1, level 1 deals 20 base damage and heals for 40) so you basically deal 20 damage to non-important enemies and get to heal 40 LP to allied. So I want to see a character under level 15 that can cast this spell and not use 100+ Zeon. If I am wrong you deal 50 base damage to non-important enemies and heal for 100 (which is admittedly much better healing)

3) Not buying path levels is nice, but that just removes the MAD of a wizard, as that spell levels are based on INT. Not having to buy projection seems nice, but as noted above, it means you can't have very high projection. Further you can't have the best abilities of a wizards. This style of magic seems to only be able to do things spells between levels 2-50, the high level spells can't be reproduced (such as Chimera, Earthquakes, Incinerate, etc.)

4) Mechanically Limited Gift allows you to cast spells with a POW check, Natural Magic is a system that allows you to cast weaker spells with a POW check, it seems they should work together perfectly. The confusion you point out is exactly why I asked, it seems that with Limited Gift you should be able to either cast Natural Magic normally or incur a small (-2 or so) penalty to the POW check.

There is no way that Natural Magic can be as strong as normal magic, of that I can assure you. The question of how Incomplete Gift works with it is a different matter, I can't be sure of that.

Apologies for the math inaccuracy, 200 zeon was more appropriate.

However, mechanically, Incomplete gift works with a pow check based on the level of the spell. Without house ruling it, the way incomplete gift works to balance it's lower CP cost would not work with Natural magic, because natural magic does not use spells.

IE: use an effect from natural magic, now make a pow check for incomplete gift based on... wait you didn't use a spell...what do I go by?

I can see the argument, but again from just the way the mechanics are stated, that seems a bit broken to me, because it avoids the entire point of limited gift in that even with 15 pow (as per your example) you have a very good chance of outright failing to cast spells of higher level.

That being said there may be a clarification in the errata, but that does require spanish or google translate.

Again apologies for any antagonism

As a point of note with power 15 you can not fail to cast a spell of level 60 or less, and have an 80% chance of casting a level 80 spell (the highest a player can normally cast). However having that high of POW when you also have to focus on INT is difficult, and this is kind of off topic, but important enough to note when considering Incomplete Gift. At POW 17 a player cannot fail non-high magic.

You are however correct about using Natural Magic without a penalty would make Incomplete Gift a much better choice if that was the only form of magic a character cast. However the fact that it is weaker may compensate for this. In any event, an official ruling would be nice, without it I will make a ruling if it ever comes up within my game.

I'd say you have to make two POW checks to cast. One for incomplete gift, one for Natural magic.

Then again, you could just raise the POW check when using both. A higher check rather than two checks.

Ex. Natural Magic: POW 15, Incomplete Gift POW 15, used together POW 23 (Higher POW + Half lower POW)

There's some hints on guestimating Natural Magic Effect levels on page 19 of AE. I'd compare the descripts with actual spells and get a range that seems to be close enough to use.