I'm really happy they are printing the AP packs with 3 copies of every card, but it kind of sucks to have the single copies from the original two cycles of APs.

I guess there is no plan/chance for maybe a direct sale from FFG? There were 10 singles in six AP cycle, so if you think about it, you have 60 cards for a box right there

Buatha said:

Well, I guess people are happy...that missed the APs the first time around

I guess plunking down another $120 if I want to go that route (I know, no one forcing me) just isn't appealing. But, then again, I guess it sucks more for the people who bought 3 APs each release the first time around.

I wanted to get into the LCG format to save money

Buatha said:

If you _really_ want to save money stop buying _any_ games, particularly those with regular expansions.

Now you're just being sarcastic

My insanity is even worse...I've never been able to play the game...no one really interested in the mythos in my group...so I've just been collecting the cards since I like the artwork and have faint hopes that someone will want to play in the future.

So, yeah. Madness!

*shrug*

I bought all the original APs in sextuplate in order to have a full playset for two players.. I am just happy that FFG listened to their consumer base and changed the card amounts to a more logical format so that new players avoid the headache I went through. It helps promote the game and makes opponents much easier to find because of that increased accessibility.

Lots of people want the new AP's that bought the old ones. Maybe find people who bought the originals and offer them $5 for each AP if you want to fill in the void?

Yeah, I'm thinking about a Core Set for a x-mas present to give to a friend of mine. So, I'll just give him the extras from the first two Cycles and consider it cool. Okay, you're probably thinking, "Some gift, man. You just hope he'll want to play with you". If so, you ARE psychic...and I guess I'm not totally altruistic

I fully respect the current dynamic and how we got here. Of course FFG shouldn't consider financial remuneration of CCG cultists and their black border triplicates. That's a doomed business model if ever there was one. I do believe that loyal decrepit fans with everything in quadruplicate have not been adequately recognized by FFG. By that, what do I mean?

Well, we could send in three cut-out bar codes per CCG AP and receive something unique to that return. The myth that the LCG era diverges from the collectible is just a rude ruse. Look at the servitor packs and the pins and the event-specific domains and the uncut sheets and the posters. Ok, so there are no more rare cards, especially with the new distribution. That's what they mean. But there are rare goodies that are impossible to find. And that's what I like. Yes, you earn your prizes by participating and show, place, winning. It is not earned by outbidding someone on ebay.

Perhaps only in person at Arkham Nights and other such events might such a gift be earned. Look, I don't feel I am owed anything. But I do feel that the switch was so volatile that FFG (CP?) basically sent that crowd a bunch of kites to go fly.

The new player and old are equals. The small fan base was fractured, is all I'm saying. I'm hanging on out of pure love for you all. Oh, and the game is great.

johnny shoes said:

I agree in some ways. There is no longer the blind-buy, but in order to build a decent deck, it takes quite a bit of money to make it by buying lots of APs. It's an odd trade off that is not completely successful, but I dont think it ever was meant to be that consumer friendly.

Just more friendly than the blind-buy CCG days of yore.

I think the most positive thing to be said for the LCG dynamic is that you can collect everything cheaper than the CCG without the rare-chasing. But from a viewpoint of a paranoid guy who wants to make sure he has enough for two players despite a lack of opponents to have their own collections, it still isn't remotely cheap. Even for one player to collect to the point of whatever is currently in print.

Could it be that we're running out of source material? That hardly seems likely. The genre is vast. Still, we've been at it for over a decade. How many still aboard have been draining domains that long I wonder. Is it possible there is a ceiling of interest? Could the reintroduction of the game, regardless of formats, be a successful way of capturing the young while the aging move on? The new faction and mythos-esque original FFG serials do not so much entice the genre purists. Conversely, a new cthulhu each year isn't the answer. Obscure works / characters, items and such, and fictional settings aren't the only grist left. But we inevitably are heading in that direction. Indeed the game has expanded my mythos fiction base. "Who the heck is that? Oh, that's an important monster created by so and so. I should get on the bus and read that one." I think FFG is expanding in all the right directions. I do think we could even now still make a massive wish list. Most of the heavy hitters have been done.The challenge is the unrequited love (to circle, widely, back to the thread title). That is, you can't please 'em all. Which brings me to the thorny question. Did the game lose it's nuts? We killed off a whole era, resurrected it some, and "unbroke" it. It just doesn't seem to play as flashy. I wonder if you need the rare-chasing to inject that same excitement. I remember the awesome combo lists and deck types and faction highlight cards of yore. Is that all gone? Has the pool of such become smaller and more insipid? Have we become predictable? Yog save us! I hope I'm wrong and just need to re-invest myself. But I wonder.

johnny shoes said:

I have often found myself wondering about the chase too. As much as I dislike elitist snobbery of haveing a more premium collection than other gamers, it is hard to shake what has been ingrained into my gaming experience from playing CCGs.

I really think there is room for both. It would be tough not to cross the fine line, as you have already shown with dissatisfaction over not being able to obtain some promo items.

But luckily those promo items are not compulsory to playing the game. Thats likely the best way to handle the thrill of the chase I suppose. Make stuff for the die hard fanatics of the game to obtain yet not alienate the core player base with cards that cannot be obtained any other way. The 2011 Gencon 2-sided domains are the best FFG have ever made, bar none, yet they are still not necessary in order to play.

Okay, as an extremely casual 40 year-old game player of all kinds (board/computer/console/card), I absolutely hated the idea of Common/Uncommon/Rare/Ultra Rare. Sure, it was fun to have some envy when you whipped out a card that was hard to get, but that was usually "the one" card you had. Forget the other one or two that might be necessary to complete your combo/deck/theme. Hence, the chase.

I didn't mean to start a downer thread, but I just wanted to state that I'm not a hard-core player (actually, I'm having to use Lackey anyway since no one near me wants to play the game), but I still like to have three copies "just in case" I need them. The same reason people are talking about the chase is why most people get out of it once they realize they are chasing the carrot. I'm probably the core audience for FFG and their LCGs...for better or worse. Hell, they probably love a guy like me that still buys the whole cycles...and never plays anyone in person.

It sounds like I'm Whining, but I'm not a soccer player

www.despair.com/whining.html

For the player who collects more than he plays, the chase is not a race. I don't own a Yaz rookie because my friends don't. I just had to have one. Funny thing, the luxury. But for game play, I agree. Who wants to play chess with the guy who opened 200 boxes and has the only queen. Similarly, I'm not pining for a beanie with a propeller that says LCG Cthulhu.

Perhaps I'm just asking the community to tell me what the top ten whiz bang cards and top archetypes now are. Amid this, I realize I have not congratulated our reigning champion. Magnus, holy consistency! Way to go.

The old forum had this amazing connect with the tournaments, the masters, and especially the transparent revealing of the next brilliant deck, combo, archetypes. We have that still, indeed. The Einsteins are available on this board. Can't say that about your favorite band etc. Can't ask Yo Yo Ma a cello question so easy.

So I think it's the cards (hey, profound, dude). I think Hastur has us all spooked. Cthulhu is viable but classic lite. Yog is the last of the trickeration. Syndicate, well ask Marius. Agency and MU are like stuck out on that Arkham Horror side board waiting to be let back into the game. And I am totally out of touch. But I think Shub is lurking. I mean, it'd be just like her.

Do you think interest is becoming a problem? The boards are not so active. New England is a poor litmus test. We've probably got the weakest LCG interest of any region that has made it to the map. So, perhaps I have no good reference. Perhaps we're in a limbo with the reprinted AP. I hope it's not the case that LCG is trending away from "new format" to "who's loyalty did we really gain?"

But I am the biased voice. I miss CCG. And that's old news. Most disagree with me that the format is missed. Aw heck, I'll say it. Perhaps the game needed the chase to make it exciting enough. Years later and I'm still poisoned by the "kitchen table" label attached by FFG.

Interest has always been an issue, and is for most games. CoC isn't a game where you can walk into most local game stores and find a group of players.

On the CCG/LCG side, I think only Magic has that trait. On the minis side (which I also play) it would be mainly 40k, Warmachine, and Warhammer. There are tons of other great games in both arenas, but their communities are smaller and more like pockets of play. One store may have a group, and many others don't.

CoC seems smaller than the other LCG's. I'm not sure why. So many posts I've read of people who play several of them seem to claim that they like the mechanics of CoC best. I think it's just down to theme. Warhammer has a tie to the miniatures game, and maybe brings in people from there. Game of Thrones has a tv series and popular books. Both are essentially mass-market themes. Cthulhu is a bit more underground. All the hardcore nerds know about it but among the general population probably not that many people are fans or really know what it's about. I'd love to get more visibility but it would take a movie, tv show, or mainstream book series to do it and I'm not sure what our odds are on that.

Personally, the ONLY reason I'm here is because Cthulhu is an LCG and not a CCG. I steadfastly refuse to dump money down a hole chasing after rare cards, or to suffer horrible losses for not having the rare cards which vastly overpower the common ones.

I really do wish the community would grow but it'll take time and is not a certain thing.

johnny shoes said:

Becoming?!?

Interest has always been an issue. The "heyday" of the ccg really only consisted of a period lasting the innitial base set and two expansions. After that, a series of heinous design decisions pushed a game on precipitous ground into the abyss. Speaking of angled floors and falls from great heights, at this point perhaps Erie’s Moon Door or their dungeons, known as "sky cells" may make a good reference and dove tail us to a comparison of LCG interest. Recently my obsessions have lead me into the world of Fire and Ice and I now tread the threads on the Game of Thrones side of the force. Perhaps needless to say, the level of interest is incredibly greater for AGoT. Since General forums tend to be bantering areas, let us cross over for a look at what the two forums have to offer in terms of the Deck Construction or Organized Play sections… and then despair.

If I were in the FFG business seat, like a Syndicate boss puffing a smuggled Cuban cigar and drinking cask conditioned Laphroaig, for the CoC LCG franchise I would make sure there was a decent Lead Designer that paid attention to FAQish rules and balance issues and maintain a reliable, magazine-like, subscription schedule. Also, using the purchase of other FFG games to throw in some free advertising is always a good thing… Other than that there is no financially related indicator that would support putting any effort in assigning manpower to develop the CoC LCG beyond it being a fringe/nitch game for a loyal few… I could again bring up the scenario of a quality CoC based TV series (not SciFy channel because I said quality) to indirectly increase exposure of the world of HPL… but that is not likely…

I guess the CoC LCG is lucky just to get the competency that Damon Stone has. Because I have to agree with Tokuah about how I would handle this if I were FFG.

Chaosium's Call of Cthulhu is a great license, but it doesnt hold a canle to the star power of GRRM, Games Workshop's wargame licenses, Tolkien's ubiquitous background or Lucasfilm's space opera. Untested and right out of the gate I would hazard to bet that even the star wars LCG will outsell CoC in numbers so great as to even make the hoary Sleeper Cthulhu wide eyed and awake with eldritch caffeine.

I feel like the begger on the corner who should be thankful for each bread crumb or penny thrown my way. I cannot begin to explain how much that feeling sucks without using profanity that would make a sailor blush, but it seems that CoC is lucky to even exist in the face of much more successful licenses.

I disagree. Star power is a reality sure. Star Wars is bigger than Thrones is bigger than hulahoop is bigger than cthulhu.

The mythos is a massive niche subject. Arkham Horror board game is the better testament to how the popularity can spawn gaming. But the genre doesn't need any game's help. Anyone who reads fiction knows about, and has likely read some, weird fiction. Anyone who likes monsters or horror beyond vampires and werewolves knows mythos big.

Our game is great. LCG is great. New releases are great. Our community is great.

The whiz bang of yore is missed. And CCG was not some blip. It was the foundation and core of the modern game. And it lasted a while. It was a big deal for a "long" time. It was amazing with possibility. Much of the populous is gone. It would be rude to say LCG cthulhu is a shadow of old. But it's not too far off. You can slow down a dog who needs to be fixed, but he won't be the same. Unlike us, at least he can still play with a Fetch Stick.