What the topic says really.... The rules seem to make clear that animals have natural attacks that are primitive, but is their armour?

It doesn't say anywhere in the book that NA is primitive. I usualy just rule that it never doubles and never halves against anything, it's just like a TB bonus.

Thanks for that, I'll run it that way and see how it all pans out...

An interesting question.

My 'gut feeling' says it should be, and since 'natural weapons' are always primitive (p330) it makes sense that 'natural armour' is also...but would that always be the case?

Tough hides like Rhinos would be primitive wouldn't they? But what about a mega-roach? Would its silicate-chitin be primitive? The 'silicate' train in the GMK (p27) says these beastie-types should get unnatural armour, but that really doesn't help...

I'm not sure. I guess i'd take it case by case.

Worn primitive armour is mainly leather, fur and hides, so i'd guess animals with these sorts of hides are primitive. Strangely however, metal armour like chain and plate is also primitive, so i reckon the beast has to have armour tougher than a Medeival plate suit to count as 'non-primitive'?

Funny, this never came up in the campaign i ran as the only animals the PCs ever really encountered were guard dogs...

I would have to agree with Luddite . Natural Armour ought to be primitive unless noted otherwise, just as it is with Natural Weapons.

Luddite said:

Not really, me would say. "Primitiv" is not about how "tough" an armour is, but if it will make a difference if the the weapon/attack is of a far better "quality" then the armour. Take away the "animal" in your sentence and replace it with "flak vests".

"Flak Vests have to have armour tougher than a medevial plate suit to count as non-primtiv?"

No. It is about qualitiy, not above toughness.

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But in my opinion, this whole rule mechanic isn´t that good all together.

Our police in germany is wearing "ballistic vests" on occasion. This vests might help to stop some pistole caliber (or better: turn it into a "broken rip") but the vest would not be really helpfull against a knife (had some discussion of this after a knife attack on a police men wearing a vest... and jeyp, my US-friends: this happens hear so seldom that it does start a discussion)....
In DH said vest would have been even better against the knive, since it was strong enough to reduce the damage against the non-primtive pistol bullet... so it should have not much a problem with the primitive knife.

All in all, I think the concept of the "flak vest" (a minor armour "over all" and a higher armour against a special form of attack it was designed against) would have been the better concept. Think of a re-work, but it seems to much work over all.

When you're looking at a creature's hide, the thickness and quality of its protection shows up in its toughness, since there generally isn't a layer that the attacks have to go through before it starts to say, "Well, I'm starting to feel it now." That's just as a general rule. When a creature's hide is thick enough to grant it actual Armor Points, I think you'd just consider it as Natural Armor (in its very own class, as opposed to Primitive/Exotic/Xeno/etc.) since it's still part of the organism at large.

Natural Armor is Natural Armor. Skin the beast and make something out of it and it will probably end up as Primitive, but while it's still breathing, it's armor type is natural.

Just my two demi-thrones.