I read the KB FAQ and I see that there is a question about Sentinel keyword and the Stand Together card. Now, I was thinking as Sentinel goes, a Sentinel keyword character can defend any attack that is declared as undefended. Therefore only Sentinel keyworded characters may defend previously declared undefended attacks, but what if at this same time, during this same attack more than one Sentinel keyworded character is available to defend against said attack. If I was to have a Stand Together card in hand at that very moment, could I group together a bunch of Sentinel keywords as defenders?

Well, I cannot help you since I do not even understand one thing. What does it really mean you can defend undefended attacks, I saw it in the rulebook, asked about it but still do not grasp it. So a player declares the attack undefended, when is the last time one can choose to defend it with Sentinel, surely not after the shadow card is revealed, right?

Also, Stand Together, can you join a few characters defending using Stand Together with a Sentinel character - belonging to another player?

Sorry I have brought my own two questions, you reminded me of them.

I'll be Honest with you guys... I have no idea why anyone EVER would want to Play Stand Together.

Since the FAQ made it clear that all damage must be assigned to a single character anyway, there is very little point in doing this. The only possible exception I can foresee is Characters that assigns Damage when they are declared defenders... but honestly, how often would you have three Gondorian Spear men and a Stand Together on hand?

I don't get that card...

/wolf

Action: Choose a player. That player may declare any number of his eligible characters as defenders against each enemy attacking him this phase.

Sentinel: A character with the sentinel keyword can be declared by its controller as a defender during enemy attacks that are made against other players. A character can declare sentinel defense after the player engaged with the enemy making the attack declares “no defenders.” The defending sentinel character must exhaust and meet any other requirements necessary to defend the attack.

I'd say: No you can't use Stand together in combination with Sentinel Effect.

(1.04) Damage and Multiple Defenders: If a player uses card effects to declare multiple defenders against a single enemy attack, the defending player must assign all damage from that attack to a single defending character.

That FAQ makes me wonder what the whole point ot Stand Together really is.... strange...

/wolf

lleimmoen said:

lleimmoen said:

To answer the first question, yes I believe you can declare the sentinel character as the undefended stand in defender after the shadow effect has been revealed.

Secondly, You may not declare the sentinel as a plus one defender in another players defense when already defended, as per the rulebook and kaybee's unofficial faq.

However, i do not believe i have seen it stated that sentinels may not group together in defense of an undefended attack while utilizing Stand Together.

is it all damage to one character or all the remaining damage after defense is subtracted? i thought it was all remaining, otherwise there is no point to playing that card, except for with spearmen like you mentioned, and possibly some others.

regarding the OP's question...i would say YES, if both/all are sentinels then they can defend for another player. to me, this seems like the optimal use of this card in a multiplayer game. obviously it has its solo benefits too.

reno1051 said:

This seems to be a reasonable answer to the question. I really had the same thought, In Fact I think this would be a great use of the card. And as for solo usage I think in conjunction with the spearman it could prove a useful tech. I would hope that this proves legal, it would efinitely up the percentage of me putting Stand Together in a deck, and maybe even convince me of buying a third core set.

Bonus Card said:

Bonus Card said:

I think though this is implicit in the wording or the Stand together Card.

The Stand together is played on a player who is being attacked, but Sentinels are used to defend against attacks on other players.

So if player A is being attacked, Stand together could be played on player A, but that only allows player A to choose multiple defenders that he controls to defend against the attack.

If player B had 3 sentinel characters, playing Stand together on player B would only allow him to use his sentinel characters to defend against an attack on player B (which is explicitly stated on the Stand together Card). Player B could not use all those sentinels to defend an attack against player A.

pumpkin said:

Exactly my point.

The wordings on the card and the wording on the Sentinel Rule are mutually exclusive.

One is used by a player using his own characters to defend himslef. (Stand Together)

The other is used by a player using his own character to defend others. (Sentinel)

/wolf

GhostWolf69 said:

I was just about to reply, agreeing with the fact that we cannot use stand together to defend others, however can't sentinels also defend one's own undefended attacks?

Okay, I just reread the rulebook, and dude that sucks, I have been using sentinels somewhat wrongly, sorry sentinels

If I did not already, thank you all for helping to clarify my confusion.

just looked up the actual card text at lotrlcg.com...i will retract my previous reply and now say that NO, it does not permit you to use multiple sentinels to defend for another player.

However, a card that would permit you to use multiple sentinels seems like it would be a great additional to the card set. it would work both thematically and practically in regards to the game.

GhostWolf69 said:

Well, Stand Together allows you to add two or more defense strengths together. That is surely useful on number on occasions. It has for me. Just take the Hill Troll, it is hard to survive its attack normally with any hero, just add two together and you should be fine.

And of course, it would be even more powerful if you could spread the damage as you wished but since you can usually get rid of the damage anyways, it is not a big deal. You just need find good time to play this card.

Bonus Card said:

Is this official? It would make the ability very strong I feel.

As far as I understood sentinel, you may declare the sentinel as a defender after the other player(s) choose not to or cant defend with a character of their own (and therefore declare: no defenders, p. 24 Rulebook). Undefended means the enemy declares an attack and there isnt any defender declared (or the defender has been removed due to a shadow card).

I think Bonus Card is confusing "declaring no defenders" with "undefended" which is a different thing.

It sounds to me like there is a confusion by some people as to whether the resulting damage from the attack during the use of Stand Together is fully absorbed or absorbed after the subtraction of the banded defense strengths. This remainder damage is then absorbed by one character. I believe it is the latter, "absorbed damage after the subtraction of the banded defense strengths". I could be wrong but this is the understanding that I have reached through the FAQ.

Bonus Card said:

To put it in a very simple formula, Stand Together works thusly:

X - Y = Z

X = Chosen Enemy's Attack Strength

Y = Total Defense Strength of all characters declared as defenders after playing Stand Together

Z = Points of damage that must be assigned to ONE of the characters that had been declared as a defender

lleimmoen said:

This is not official. I interpret "after" in the Sentinel definition as "immediately after". Official clarification would be nice, but I don't think Sentinel works this way.

Lightdarker said:

That would make a lot of sense and also make this card quite useful... but I cannot really find support for this in the rules... and not in the card either. Is this a card Errata maybe?

/wolf

radiskull said:

I had thought the same and still think it is just a bit of confusion in the wording of the rules, at least for some. Immediately after is what I believe is the case.

GhostWolf69 said:

Well, now that I look at the card, it does not specificaly say "add the defense values together" but I have always found it quite self-explanatory. And I believe this is how it is played in general - and it is the reason why the card is played at all. Otherwise, it would not have any value, really.

lleimmoen said:

Exactly. That is why we never bothered to play it. The only reason we could find was if you had multiple "Gondrian Spearmen" (assigning damage) or combine it with several "Swift Strike"... but all of these options seemed too limited to warant the card in the deck at all.

I will suggest that my group adopt this way to read the rules, even though we cannot find it explicitly stated any where, because it would make the card a whole lot better.

/wolf

GhostWolf69 said:

I think is the right way to play it and I think there is some support, albeit indirect, for it in the rules.

In the rules section it does clearly state that combat damage is determined by subtracting the defence strength of the defending character from the attack strength of the attakcer (emphasis mine).

Stand together allows you to declare multiple defenders (and hence you have more than one defending character) against an attack.

Therefore when you have multiple defenders, you simply subtract the defence strength of the defending characters from the attack strength of the attacker.

This is exactly what Lightdarker's equation represents.