A "limit once per X" only refers to the individual card, and not the effect on all cards with the same title, correct? (Events are obviously treated differently, and I'm not talking "Limited Response") I can trigger, for example, two Skinchangers in a single challenge phase?
Clarification on play restrictions needed
I'd say yes because the self-referential target of the ability is to affect itself and not all Skinchangers in play. Otherwise Skinchanger should be a unique card because it's ability would be much less useful. The limit once per phase is most likely put in there so you don't add 2 or more challenge icons to him.
Yes. Here's the short-hand for handling limits:
- Limits on cards triggered while they are in play: The limit applies to that card alone
- Limits on cards triggered while they are not in play (eg, events): The limit applies to all cards with the same title.
- Limited Responses: The limit applies to any effect with the "Limited Response" timing trigger.
- "Limit 1 per game": The limit applies to all cards with the same title, no matter where they are triggered from.
And, of course, all these limits apply per player. For example, Player #1 using a Limited Response doesn't mean anything when Player #2 wants to use one.
ktom said:
And, of course, all these limits apply per player. For example, Player #1 using a Limited Response doesn't mean anything when Player #2 wants to use one.
Of course.
That's all fair enough. But where does the distinction between "in play" and "out of play" come from? The only distinction I found was in the FAQ under "Play Restrictions" for Events ("... how often the event may be played") vs. play restrictions on character abilities -- which I assume apply also to locations and attachments -- ("...how often the character ability may be triggered"). I think the distinction makes perfect sense, I just have trouble deriving it from anywhere.
Saturnine said:
I think the distinction makes perfect sense, I just have trouble deriving it from anywhere.
The rules regarding attachment and location abilities are derived from the rules for characters. I am not sure why the FAQ doesn't just say explicitly that it is talking about all three.
ktom said:
Saturnine said:
I think the distinction makes perfect sense, I just have trouble deriving it from anywhere.
It's derived just from the nature of events. What is the point (in 98% of the situations; fast recursion isn't that common) of putting a "limit 1 per phase" on an event if it applies to that card alone?
I think you misunderstood my confusion. It's perfectly clear to me why it makes sense for such a limit on an event card to apply to all copies of the event. And the corresponding application of the play restriction to all copies of the event is implied in the paragraph on play restrictions for event cards. I'm just wondering where the application of the principle to non-event cards comes from (although I realize it makes sense for those as well).
Saturnine said:
I think you misunderstood my confusion. It's perfectly clear to me why it makes sense for such a limit on an event card to apply to all copies of the event. And the corresponding application of the play restriction to all copies of the event is implied in the paragraph on play restrictions for event cards. I'm just wondering where the application of the principle to non-event cards comes from (although I realize it makes sense for those as well).
The application of limits on non-event cards are implied from the information on play restrictions on characters, the entry about self-referential abilities, and the entry clarifying that limits are part of initiation, not resolution. There is also a very heavy implication that they are "per card" in the Patchface entry in the Legacy FAQ.
Ultimately, the difference between in-play and out-of-play limit application is one of the "it works because it works" kind of things, based as much on common sense and consistent board/tourney ruling as on "black-and-white" entries in the FAQ. Guess it's something to add to Rogue30's "oughtta be codified in print" list.
ktom said:
Ultimately, the difference between in-play and out-of-play limit application is one of the "it works because it works" kind of things, based as much on common sense and consistent board/tourney ruling as on "black-and-white" entries in the FAQ.
That's the impression I got, I just wanted to make sure I didn't miss anything in the rules.
Buump!
Does change of control mix things up at all, or are cards in play restrictions keyed to themselves?
If a skinchanger that has used its ability, and changes controller. Since the new controller has yet to use its ability, can he use it?
oshi said:
If a skinchanger that has used its ability, and changes controller. Since the new controller has yet to use its ability, can he use it?