I decided to make a new thread for a handful of other questions, that are all generally in the same idea.

Firstly, in Melee, in what order do player's reveal Plots? Is it all at the same time? Or does the "first" player reveal his or hers, and then the others get to choose - or what? This is what we've been doing and it seems like the decisions others make are influenced by the choices of those before them. This seems really strange to me.

Secondly, what happens when I flip over (for example) Focused Offense, but then have another card that allows me to make an additional challenge? I think the card at hand was Edric Storm (when you win a Power Challenge you can make another Power Challenge right after).

Thirdly, do things that care about gold in your Gold Pool (Littlefinger, for example) count gold that are on a Character? (Tywin Lannister, for example). And does the gold on a Character empty during the Taxation phase? The Taxation Phase says that it empties only the gold in your pool, so we've been assuming no.

Fourthly, a player who reveals whatever Plot allows them to skip the Taxation Phase; do they keep their Title in Melee? The rules say that you give up your Title in the Taxation Phase, so if they were to skip it - they would get to keep it, right?

Finally, I have yet to see cards other than Plots that give Initiative. Do these even exist? Can someone give me a handful of examples if they do?

Dread318 said:

So.... since you determine who the First Player is based on the initiative totals on the revealed plot cards, how are you deciding who the first player is for revealing?

Don't take this the wrong way, but you may need to read the rule book again a little more carefully. In the "Round Sequence" section under the plot phase, the very first sentence is: "Each player simultaneously chooses and reveals one plot card from his plot deck." So it seems pretty clear that all players reveal their selected plots at the same time.

All players reveal their plots at the same time. You don't get the benefit of seeing what anyone else is choosing for a plot before choosing and revealing your own. Once all plots are revealed - at the same time - you compare the initiative values and the person with the high initiative chooses the First Player for the round. Then the First Player gets to choose the order in which any "when revealed" text on the plot cards is resolved.

Dread318 said:

Focused Offensive says "You cannot declare more than 1 challenge." According to the FAQ, the word "cannot" is absolute. Since the plot uses the word "cannot," it wins. You would not be allowed to trigger Edric Storm's ability at all.

Dread318 said:

Any gold on your characters is not in your gold pool as it is defined in the rules for the Marshaling Phase. When a card (or the Taxation rules) specifies the "gold pool," it therefore has no interaction with gold anywhere other than the gold pool. Note that this means gold tokens that are not in your gold pool do not count toward Dominance, either.

Dread318 said:

Couple of things: There is only one Taxation phase. If it is skipped for one player, it is skipped for all players. With that plot, the Taxation phase never happens at all in the round sequence; you would not play it such that all players empty their gold pools except for the controller of the plot. (You would play it such that NO player empties their gold pool because the Taxation phase never happens - for anyone.)

Also, you're going to want to check the rules again. They do not say "at the end of the Taxation phase, return your title...." They say "at the end of the ROUND, return your title...." The round still ends, whether there is a Taxation phase or not, so everyone returns their title at the end of the round.

Dread318 said:

There are other cards that give in other sets that give initiative bonuses. They are just like the cards that give gold bonuses, but for initiative rather than gold. They don't "do" anything more than that. The rules (p. 7) describe initiative bonuses, even though there aren't any cards in the Core Set that have them.

ktom said:

I don't want to sound defensive, but as I've mentioned I'm new - and your condescending tone kind of kills a community spirit. I hate to come in here and be "that guy" but sounding so awful to newer players probably keeps them away from the game. You're probably not try to be, but you should really rephrase your questions and statements. You've put me on the defensive, so here;

1. My group got the "Active Player" and "First Player" confused. And we assumed that since First Player is referred to in the Setup Phase, it was a static thing and that person always dropped their Plot first.

2. Thanks.

3. That's what we thought, just making sure.

4. This was a simple mistake, because in the rulebook this section is left directly underneath the part about the Taxation Phase.

We're still learning, and as far as I can see, that's the point of this forum.

Dread318 said:

I'm curious as to what made you feel talked down to?

the1andonlime said:

Not sure, but sounds like he took it the wrong way

(I say that in jest. ktom specfically said, "Don't take this the wrong way...")j

It was probably because ktom pointed where he can look for these rules ("Also, you're going to want to check the rules again"). Which is exactly the point of the forum, to learn & teach.

I think we all know by now that online tone can't always be taken too literally. I know that when I create and re-read posts that my tone can sometimes be condescending and combative but it really is unintentional.

Dread, I apologize for putting you on the defensive and implying a condescending tone. It was not my intent.

Citing the rules and their language is more of a tool to introduce some of the nuances of meaning and context that come up (often) in this game. It was intended to show you where the answers to your questions could be found (you'd be surprised how many times we get "newbie" questions on the board, answer them, then have the questioners argue the answers as being unsupported or not stated in the rules - when they are right there) and, when reading them again with the new information in mind, you could get a better handle on the way FFG templates the rules and cards so that some of the contextual meaning would be clearer when you hit larger interactions in the future.

I should also have been more aware that answering questions with contrary examples or inconsistent application - a tried and true method around here - is not always seen for what it is by those who are new to the boards.

Don't get discouraged, Dread. I think all of the regulars here can vouch for ktom's motivation to help new (and old) players.

Regarding ktom's suggestion to look at the rules again, it is really good advice for a new player, and actually any player that doesn't have them all memorized. When first learning this game, rereading it after every couple play sessions will probably lead to new insights as sections that you had previously glossed over will suddenly make sense after you come across in-game situations where they are relevant. Personally, I am not a big fan of the way the rules document is laid out. It is nice for reading through when first learning the rules, but because of this it can be difficult to look things up later.

Also, as a new player, you should definitely look at the FAQ (see FATMOUSE's signature above for a link).