I'm just curious if anyone has found a use for the Revised version of the messenger other than being killed during the final battle? Other than that it just seems like there are very very few ways to reliably get devoured. The only one that immediately springs to mind is ensuring you are on 1 stamina and sanity when you use an Elder Sign.
The Messenger
It's not impossible, off the top of my head I can think of:
- fail a horror check against a shan [pretty rare monster and you need to catch it in the streets]
- go insane or unconscious against a moon-beast [slightly less rare, and doesn't fly
- fail a horror or combat check for servitor of the outer gods [fairly rare flying monster[
- be Silas and enter R'lyeh
- be Rex, fail your story, and get cursed again.
Of course, it's not easy either. But it can be arranged
ricedwlit said:
It's not impossible, off the top of my head I can think of:
- fail a horror check against a shan [pretty rare monster and you need to catch it in the streets]
- go insane or unconscious against a moon-beast [slightly less rare, and doesn't fly
- fail a horror or combat check for servitor of the outer gods [fairly rare flying monster[
- be Silas and enter R'lyeh
- be Rex, fail your story, and get cursed again.
Of course, it's not easy either. But it can be arranged
Deliberately get repeatedly knocked out or driven insane until you get enough madness or injury cards to get devoured. How about Be Silas and pass your story ;'D
I think the best way to get Devoured is to go to Innsmouth. Once Martial Law begins the Innsmouth Jail can easily finish you, and before that you could head out to Yha n'thlei if you want to die.
Solan said:
I think the best way to get Devoured is to go to Innsmouth. Once Martial Law begins the Innsmouth Jail can easily finish you, and before that you could head out to Yha n'thlei if you want to die.
Using just IH you have a 3/14 (21%) chance of getting devoured while in the Jail Cell. Add in MH (no other expansions) and this goes to 6/22 (27%) - adding in other expansions will slowly drop it to 6/34 (18%). Given that you can easily arrange to be arrested and then loaf in the cell, my money is on Innsmouth Jail over Injury/Madness
ricedwlit: Also remember that the odds change based on your Sneak, since every success you roll on a Sneak check allows you to draw an additional card. Of course, if your Sneak is good, you're less likely to fail the Evade check to avoid being arrested. In addition, you're counting only the cards that devour you in your calculations. Remember that there is one that forces you to draw three Innsmouth Look cards.On the general topic of intentional devourings, most things mention here can apply to Tommy Muldoon (who needs to be devoured for his story) except the Jail Cell, since he can't get arrested. You sort of have to wonder if that ability was intended to prevent him getting devoured too easily. At any rate, Innsmouth in general has ample opportunities for devouring, so even without martial law, it's a good idea to hang around the locations filling the Feds track and hope to get (un)lucky.
Agreed: I was just stating the number of Innsmouth Jail encounter cards that state ".... You are devoured." You can certainly improve your chances of getting devoured by drawing more than one.
It is not impossible to be devoured, but it is unlikely enough that The Messenger is more of a burden than a benefit.
The devouring gate !!!!! it really hates me, i'm sure of it
ricedwlit said:
Agreed: I was just stating the number of Innsmouth Jail encounter cards that state ".... You are devoured." You can certainly improve your chances of getting devoured by drawing more than one.
Tibs said:
It is not impossible to be devoured, but it is unlikely enough that The Messenger is more of a burden than a benefit.
No. If you have 20% odds and draw two cards, 40% odds, you should be able to be devoured within three turns. If you have high sneak, you can do it even faster. Although Messenger would drop your sneak one ;'D Still... I'd say given those odds, two doom tokens is nothing to turn your nose away from.
In a four investigator game that's equivalent to getting eight investigators worth of movement (or more if there's a surge or a terror rise). Definitely a good trade.
Just to be a completist: there are plenty of Gate cards that can devour you, but the deck is so large that your chances are not great. Off the top of my head, Rl'yeh would probably be the best. There's also Funnel Clouds and One Thousand Young (although the other players might not be too happy with the latter course). The Flute of the Outer Gods makes for a pretty easy devouring, and I think the wording of Alien Statue would mean you make the roll even if you go insane (based on similar rulings about spells). Against the Lurker, there's An Offer You Can't Refuse, Prisoner's Dilemma, The Legacy of Blood, and The Legacy of Madness. Really, though, the most reliable way is if you're playing against Yog-Sothoth, Ghatanathoa, or (sometimes) Quachil Uttaus. Nyarlathotep also gives the population of devouring monsters a boost.
Avi_dreader said:
No. If you have 20% odds and draw two cards, 40% odds, you should be able to be devoured within three turns. If you have high sneak, you can do it even faster. Although Messenger would drop your sneak one ;'D Still... I'd say given those odds, two doom tokens is nothing to turn your nose away from.
You're talking about Innsmouth Jail, right? Not everyone who has Dark Pharaoh also has (and uses) Innsmouth. Plus, that –1 to Sneak checks will make it harder to draw extra cards.
The new Messenger would have been fair if he'd added no points to any skill checks rather than subtracting them.
Tibs said:
Avi_dreader said:
No. If you have 20% odds and draw two cards, 40% odds, you should be able to be devoured within three turns. If you have high sneak, you can do it even faster. Although Messenger would drop your sneak one ;'D Still... I'd say given those odds, two doom tokens is nothing to turn your nose away from.
You're talking about Innsmouth Jail, right? Not everyone who has Dark Pharaoh also has (and uses) Innsmouth. Plus, that –1 to Sneak checks will make it harder to draw extra cards.
The new Messenger would have been fair if he'd added no points to any skill checks rather than subtracting them.
Well, yeah, obviously it won't work without Innsmouth ;'D
Ah, yes, I hadn't really thought of that. If you have only the base game and Dark Pharaoh and you aren't playing with Yog-Sothoth, it's virtually impossible to get devoured. Of course, there aren't many effects tha force a random ally on you. Just hope you don't get his encounter at the Isle...
One of my characters got The Messenger at random during a game and he instantly started sucking.
Tibs said:
One of my characters got The Messenger at random during a game and he instantly started sucking.
So...is that a good thing or a bad thing?
jgt7771 said:
Tibs said:
One of my characters got The Messenger at random during a game and he instantly started sucking.
So...is that a good thing or a bad thing?
It was a bad thing. I like a challenge but allies are supposed to be helpful.
"Hey, Nyarlathotep! Check it out...guy thinks you're supposed to be helpful."
"Oh, but I am. I am ever so helpful to MYSELF."
"I think he thinks you're unfair."
"Oh, and the old me who was overpowered in his favor for five years...THAT was fair?"
"Not sure he's seeing it your way."
"He doesn't know what he wants. But I can give him what he NEEDS."
Fair? I'm not sure he was. Actually he was probably the strongest of the Dark Pharaoh allies. Which makes him the most powerful of almost all the allies (Orne and Rice still have great abilities).
More appropriate as an ally? Certainly. Revise him again do give +0 to all checks and remove two doom tokens when he dies, and I'll put him in.
Remember, from my BGG thread, that to justify the old Messenger, I left in the old encounter card, which makes it significantly harder to obtain him. Not everyone will go to Unvisited Isle with a Curse or a Mask item and get the sole card out of 12 (39 with every expansion) to obtain him. That's not even to mention if he's still available to get!
I regret nothing, and I look forward to The Messenger combating horrors and sacrificing himself for me in some future game rather than apparently receiving a piggyback ride everywhere.
Tibs said:
I regret nothing, and I look forward to The Messenger combating horrors and sacrificing himself for me in some future game rather than apparently receiving a piggyback ride everywhere.
jgt7771 said:
"Hey, Nyarlathotep! Check it out...guy thinks you're supposed to be helpful."
"Oh, but I am. I am ever so helpful to MYSELF."
"I think he thinks you're unfair."
"Oh, and the old me who was overpowered in his favor for five years...THAT was fair?"
"Not sure he's seeing it your way."
"He doesn't know what he wants. But I can give him what he NEEDS."
Excellent and clever response, JGT! Personally I find the new Messenger more representative of how I believe the Crawling Chaos should be than the old one. The way I see it, he's constantly hindering you, seeking to get you killed while taunting you with the promise that if you do die, he will act against the Ancient One (even it is him!). So are you willing to sacrifice yourself to save the world?