While differences in some weapons are easily explained by different production patterns - as in Dark Heresy Las Carbine weights 0.5kg more, deal 1 less damage, but is Common instead of Scarce - and it's quite obvious that it's cheaper version than Locke-pattern in Rogue Trader - simple shotguns in Dark Heresy and Rogue trader are exactly same except for Shotgun in RT do not having Reliable quality... when Shotgun Pistol have it, while being more complex mechanism. Is it mistake or deliberate? If second I can't understand why...

Since there's no errata on this topic, I consider it to be a deliberate decision, though as GM, I would allow my players to use the DH variant. In RT, Eldar Shuriken Catapults don't have the Tearing property for some reason, so my GM allowed me to use the stats from "Creatures Anathema" since "Tearing" describes quite well what the weapon does to fleshy targets^^.

In regards to the shuriken weapons I could have sworn that the shuriken catapults in Creatures anathema were the Avenger Shuriken catapults, which are a better version of the common guardian version.

AS for the differences. Things change between the games for various reasons. One might be editing, another might be a conscious decision to alter it for reasons like balance, or to avoid one weapon being the solution to all problems. It could also be a different pattern of shotgun, check the fluff bit where they describe the weapon in the book, if one's listed as something like Mars pattern, and the other book has a different type listed then there's your answer.

Honestly speaking I'm hard pressed to think WHAT should be done to two-barrel shotgun to "remove "reliable" quality from it" as said in game terms. Especially when shotgun pistol still have it. Not to mention most of normal RT weaponry are better than DH analogs.

My void-mistress made the following shotgun from DH and she loves it.

Its from the IH and is a triple barrel shotgun that fires all three barrels at once which adds the tearing quality to the weapon's profile.

Meat Hammer Basic (SP) 30m S/-/- 2d5+6 I, Pen 0, 3Full, Scatter, Tearing, 5kg, Scarce

The stat line for hers ended up looking like this

Good Meat Hammer Basic (SP) 15/30m S/-/- 2d5+6 I, Pen 0, 2Full, Customized, Reliable, Scatter, Tearing, 1.67kg, Scarce

It has a red dot scope and a pistol grip so it can be fired one handed. Range isn't really an issue for scatter weapons since to truly be effective they have to be fired at pbr so the weapon loses absolutely nothing from its range being halved when fired one handed.

Half aim +10BS, red dot scope +10BS, pbr +30BS that a total of +50BS. If you can't afford to use the half aim that's still +40. If you gm lets you mod weapons you can further increase its stopping power by adding the accurate quality which I intend to as my gm does. That would let me get another +10BS and up to 2d10 extra damage.

Over all a pretty deadly little weapon if built right.

You can always assume that different books represent different patterns in weapons that have similar names. The shotgun without reliable might be made by a second or third rate shop and be crappier than one that is made elswhere. Unless theres an errata to fix it.

I have a nice question about shotguns too...

they have the "scatter" speciality, and so they can give huge damages at short range, but how do I count damage if I use a semi-auto shotgun? and what damage can I use if its on normal range, or on half range? as it only says point blank and long ranges, but didnt say anything about normal ranges...

As written in the book:

Scatter
The standard ammunition of these weapons spreads out when
fired, hitting more of the target. If fired at a foe within Point
Blank range, each two degrees of success the firer scores
indicates another hit (use Table 9-5: Multiple Hits on page
239). However, at longer ranges this spread of small projectiles
reduces its effectiveness. All Armour Points are doubled against
hits from scatter weapons at Long or Extreme Range.

Re semi-auto: If the weapon has the Scatter special quality and is fired with a Semi-Auto Bust at Point Blank Range, any extra hits from Scatter and Semi-Auto Burst are calculated separately and both applied. Semi-auto Scatter is simply horrifying at point-blank.

Re ranges: I would assume that you only incur the bonus or penalty at the specified ranges. That's how it's always been in my games, at least.

At normal range scatter does nothing.
It's good at point blank and bad at long range and more. Inbetween it uses it's standard profile.

In melee (only possible with pistols) it counts as being at pointblank range for the scatter. (but doesn't get the +30 for point blank as normal).

Twin link a pump shotgun (or two), make it compact (sawed off), use pistol grips and those fancy recoil gloves (good for hiding up your great coat sleeves).

Let the carnage ensue.

NGL said:

Hi NGL

While I agree that this would make a very devastating weapon, I wouldn't allow it as a GM. Now I'm not going to tell you you shouldn't use it, but I think it is broken for the following reason.

My issue is with adding the 'accurate' quality to a shotgun, and a three barreled shotgun at that. Accurate applies to weapons that can be considered precision weapons, a marksmans weapons (e.g. Precsion Hand Cannon, Sniper's Rifle, Hunting Instrument). A sawed off three barrelleed shotgun just isn't the kind of weapon you use for carefully placed shots.

The Meat Hammer, (the clue is in the name) is the oppposite of a precision waepon.

By adding accurate you would end up with and arguably broken 2d10 + 2d5 + 6 + scatter + tearing making it the best gun in the game. In short I think the 'accurate' and 'scatter' qualities are incompatible.

Just my two cents.

bobh said:

The is an old New Zealand movie called 'Utu' ("Revenge') set around the time of the colonial wars (or just after) in which a farmer returns home to find his wife and family murdered by renegade Maori warriors. He loses the plot and welds two double barrelled shotguns together. I seem to recall that it all ends rather unhappily but I may be wrong.

We saw this through school way back, and were playing Traveller at the time. The very next gun to pop up in our Traveller game at the time? Yep you guessed, four barrelled shotgun (and yes, we were thirteen of fourteen at the time).

I don't suggest it lightly, these things exist...

Go HERE to see a real life double barrel pump shotgun and weep for joy .

And if anyone were to suggest they weren't possible in the game they are RAW legal.

GM's that suggest that shotguns can't be accurate are full of crap. You play too many FPS games.

Even a triple barreled shotgun will be accurate enough to pick your butt off a fencepost at 100 yards in the right hands - with slugs - with buckshot you dont need to be accurate, just point the thing in the general direction of whatever you want to kill.

Go see videos of the AA-12 in action and look at the range on that monster.

Oh yeah: Triple barreled Shotgun One and Two

Or....drumroll...the four barrel Famars Rombo. (mouse hover over gallery then choose the rombo) (FAMARS make masterpiece quality weapons).

My personal fave double barrel pump - HERE .

Revolver type shotgun, and here.

The problem is that shotguns in 40k use shot as standard.
And shot just isn't accurate.

If you want to have a shotgun firing slugs accurately I'd suggest taking such ammo:

Precision slugs: The weapon looses scatter but gains accurate, it's range increases by 50%
Can be used by shotgun, assault shotgun, shotgun pistol.

but that would be a HR.

Executioner shells (no semi or autofire but twin linking means you still get two shots off on single fire) From DH - Ascension. Deathwatch Core RUlebook - Slugs lose scatter gain tearing and felling. No House Rule needed. Nuff said.

You clearly did not really read (or understand) my post. But never mind.

Doesn't 'accurate' represent consistent i.e. the weapon consistently creates a large-ass hole in anything at PBR

Seriously though, there is such a thing as accurate scatter . Such a weapon's scatter pattern wouldn't be random. It's consistent, repeatable, and above all predictable. The rule book description for scatter doesn't say anyone within 2m has a chance to get hit it says resolve additional hits against the target.

Again accurate only really makes since for a scatter weapon at its optimal range, point-blank, so I don't see the issue with a weapon having both. Its a niche weapon. Its really strong at pbr which means, if it doesn't kill something in one shot you aren't likely to get another one.

It can't be used in melee and the running out to point-blank range to get off a shot isn't really possible even though I see people on this forum thinking its a valid tactical option. No, GM worth his salt would allow a player to do it repeatedly, or make his npcs dumb enough to be exploited in that manner.

It should go down like this, "Oh, your moving out to point blank range? OK, first half of the round you move out to pbr and the npc quickdraws his rifle and fires on you since you are now at pbr. Are you going to stay there and take a shot of your own or run for cover?

In no way does the RT book indicate Accurate always means its a sniper rifle - it means its a weapon crafted to be accurate. Noting less. A shotgun can be accurate.

As for reading or understanding Umbranous: I clearly responded to you indicating the tools you suggest need be house ruled already exist. Care to try again?

I would agree. Accurate and scatter don't seem to mix. As a GM I would allow one or the other, but not both. Accurate implies being able to more easily be able to target and hit more vulnerable areas where the most damage is caused. Scatter means that the shot is spread out and hitting multiple areas. The force targeted to a vulnerable area is greatly diminished since scattering is spreading the force out on a broader area, rather than concentrating on the vulnerable area.

Real-World shotguns can be Accurate, and there's no real disputing this. However, in the context of the game, it doesn't make sense. Scatter doesn't make sense in the real-world, because as a farm boy whose grown up around deer hunting, you chase more bleeding deer using buckshot then using anything else, from a 300 H&H to a .22 Hornet*. So since Shotguns are getting such a massive power bump in the form of Scatter, the Accurate trait wouldn't make any sense at all since Scatter more then implies a certain degree of lost accuracy. I'd be more comfortable adding Accurate to a number of stub automatics then to a shotgun in this context.

*I wouldn't recommend this for anyone who doesn't shoot under 1 Minute of Angle because it doesn't have the punch to take out shoulders, but rest assured this is more then enough for a clean kill from my own first hand experience.