when will the Barking Dog become available...looks like a much better option than the Steel Rain...

You can already buy it from Dust Models - no official card though. But Steel Rain is awsome, being an Axis player its the walker I most fear.

And the Steel Rain it's about to become even more fearsome, being the only unit that can annihilate a heavy walker on a single die roll.

Wow, is it just me or does 1 hit kill on armor 7 make the heavy walkers seem weak and risky to bring? also more on topic i would love to see an official card for barking dog and what has been dubbed the flak Luther (2 x 5cm cannons), i think they would complement each other very nicely.

I rarely play Steel Rain being an exclusive allied player. The mortar is really good, but the artillery is mediocre at best. It will be fun to blow some dust off of it when the heavy walkers come out.

Another new useful walker for the allies is the Hot Dog now that zombies and apes will be running around all willy nilly

blkdymnd said:

Medicore artillery rockets, you sure? With 12 dice against current armour its an almost certain kill on turn 1.

Major Mishap said:

I wish, with my rolling, it never seems to happen that way

With Steel Rain, you get one shot with artillery, and then you have to peek your head out to use the mortar (which is awesome when it hits). Problem is the Lothar is going to get probably 2 more artillery shots in after my first volley, and I have to seek it out instead of the other way around.

I like that the two artillery walkers are so different. They each play differently, while accomplishing basically the same thing. The only thing is that the Foxtrot squad is of very limited use, since you'll only get 2 artillery shots at the most with a Steel Rain, after which the Observer squad is kinda pointless. Good thing they are cheap.

I thought the current card (he had a different one posted a while back) posted at arkangl's blog was the official card...that would give the Dog 18 artillery shots , dump the motar and add a .50cal MG...I like that...

can u provide a link to the blog i never heard of it and would like to be able to read stat cards

Observer squads make nice skirmishers too. You get three little squads for the price of one Recon squad, which makes it six models with rifles vs five models with one carrying a machinegun.

What does this do for you?

1. Sacrificial LOS blockers for more critical squads
2. Little plinkers to harass the enemy
3. Extra activations to force the enemy to commit his troops before you have to move your heavy hitters, which IMO is the nicest part
4. Lots of ways to call down artillery if you have it

Don't really see why the Barking Dog would be comparable to the Steel Rain. Looks pretty clearly related to an M50 Ontos, which was a tank destroyer rather than an artillery piece.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M50_Ontos

asbestos said:

Agreed the recoiless rifle is a short ranged anti-tank gun not an artillery weapon. If you search for barking dog here you will find some more cards.

It's a question of semantics, as some people consider any large gun artillery, including military references and dictionaries. Artillery is normally used for mounted weapons other than small arms (which is another word with multiple definitions).

The game makes it more confusing due to their simplification of rules, yet use of specific terminology. Howitzers are traditionally capable of use for indirect fire, yet the only howitzers in the game are direct fire weapons. Howitzers can use direct fire at any range normally, but the game differentiates and does not currently allow any weapons capable of 'A' class fire to fire at short ranges, nor 'non-A' class weapons to fire indirect.

It works from a rules simplicity standpoint, but it does add confusion for discussions.

Gimp said:

All true, though I disagree a little about the howitzer. A true SPG or just a plain howitzer, yeah, it should count as indirect artillery but... when mounted in a turret such as with the M8 Scott (which is basically what the mickey is, except it has a closed turret) or the M4(105) it was generally an infantry support weapon/assault gun rather than indirect artillery.

The problem being that it would complicate the game system to have "direct" and "indirect" lines. Possibly have a "U/A" range with direct fire giving cover saves and indirect not giving cover saves?

You wouldn't need to change the card at all, you just say in the rules you can fire direct at any range or indirect with a minimum range of 3. saying that an artillery gun cannot fire at close targets is just plain daft, they don't have to lob shells all the time.

asbestos said:

A howitzer is designed by definition as an indirect fire weapon, but can be mounted in such a way that it is used only for direct fire. I mentioned howitzer due to definition, rather than by weapon mount. Using a howitzer in a limited traverse turret is simply making use of the gun you have for a different purpose than originally designed for.

The military was good at repurposing equipment, which adds to the semantics problems for any game.

I would have preferred Artillery be able to fire direct at short ranges, but artillery also includes the Nebelwerfer, which couldn't. They could add extra rules for artillery capable of direct fire, or keep things simplified, and it would work for a game.

The petard mortar gives a good example of a limited range high arc weapon, like a traditional small mortar, but the rules for dual range weapons don't include a provision for indirect fire. The petard mortar wouldn't have the ranging tables for use as an indirect weapon, and I honestly don't know if it had a minimum range for the actual weapon in WW2, but other mortar weapons would need additional rules to allow them to fire indirect if the game adds them. Again, they could add rules for a better simulation, or keep things simple, and have it still work.

The game suffers from oversimplification, but not so much that even an ex-artilleryman like myself is going to have too many issues to enjoy it. I can deal with oversimplification so long as I'm still having fun, and I do enjoy Dust.

Gimp said:

I tried to make an M2 mortar squad for DT and, to solve the range issue, I had to invent a new weapons rule.

"Mortar: A Mortar follows the same rules as Artillery, except the minimum and maximum ranges are replaced with the listed ranges (e.g a weapon with Mortar (2-6) has a minimum range of 2 and a maximum range of 6)"

Probably should have named it something else as on the current version of the card it says "M2 Mortar: Mortar (2-6)"

asbestos said:

The name is the name, so it works. Arguably, it could read M2 Mortar (2-6) and have Mortar as a unit special rule instead of with the name.

I'd like to see them add mortars, just as I'd like to see them allow direct fire with an artillery cannon. The downside is the requirement to add or alter rules. Mortars would be easy, as that would only add a rule like your house rule. Allowing some cannon to fire direct or indirect would be a significant shift for current units (only one, but it's a big tactical shift). Perhaps it will work for Dust Warfare, where there is likely to be more complexity.