Knowing how occasionally ambiguous the core book can be sometimes, I have a simple question that I can't seem to find a solid answer to:

If a character has both the modules for magical projection as an attack and a defence, can they cast any spell with just their combat scores, or do some spells absolutely require a magical projection check regardless.

I'm making a warlock who fights with martial arts and I gave them both modules to concentrate the focus of things I need to spend points on, and while it won't be a deal breaker; i was wondering if i'll have to wait a few levels for him to be able to cast all of his spells (as he currently has no magic projection).

I would say: No, you need "magic projection" for some spells.

Reason: "This allows the character to use his attack ability when undertaking an offensive Magic Projection." (Site 58, Core Rule Book, Effects of Magic Projection as an Attack). So, I would say that for example the spell "Speed" (Book of Air, Site 137, Level 42) isn't offensive or defensive. So it can't cast it with "Magic Projection as an Attack/Defense".

IMO you can use all spells, which have the "Type of Spell" "Attack" with "Magic Projection as an Attack" (and also Type of Spell: Defense with Magic Projection as an Defense), but Spells with other "Spell-Types" must be cast with Magic Projection.

P.S.: Sry, if there some mistakes in my english writing, english isn't my mothertongue.

This was discussed in the Warlock's Thread, too.

The only correct answer you can find in the manual is...not clear.

Those 2 modules are labeled "Attack" and "Defense", but they never mention that you can use them ONLY for Attack/Defense.

Defense module says you can use it to cast Passive spells and Shield spells. Shield spells are ALSO Passive (check the manual), so it's redundant.

You can't use it to cast offensive spells. Too bad "offensive spell" is not a specific game-term. There are Attack spells and Spiritual spell, both requiring an attack roll. But there's no "offensive" category.

Attack module says that you can't use it with Passive spell nor with Defensive spells.

Now, mind this:

Defensive IS a specific game term.

It's a spell that you use to defend against an attack. You try to defend, rolling a defense against an attack roll.

So a Shield is a Defensive spell, but a Healing is not a Defensive spell.

Offensive is NOT a specific game term. So it gets unclear at this point.

Logic says this:

I can't use Attack Module with Passives and Defenses.

A Healing (or some other Effect spells) is not a Defense. It's also not a Passive, since it's an Active and Effect spell.

So, by what those 2 modules DO state about what you can or can't cast, a Healing spell could be cast with the Attack Module (it's not prohibited by what its ruling says), so you have to base this statement on your interpretation and common sense.

Some other spells, like Create Light, some detection spells, etc, are not Defenses, by their own nature.

But they're also not Attack or Spiritual spells.

Anything in that category is in a sort of Limbo, BUT the rules doens't prevent any ofthose to be cast with Attack Module.

Main example: I need to cast a Healing on my ally, who is 10m. away from me. I should roll Projection to see if I can reach.

But I'm a warlock, I specialized in a Module to use my martial prowess to cast spells. So I want to use the Attack Module to "shoot" my Healing at my ally.

Think about an Effect spells that could be a great help for my ally, but a great disadvantage for an opponent (something like illuminating my ally so he could see in the dark, but also it could reveal a hidden assassin if I cast it on said assassin).

Does the reason why I cast a spell change its type? Hell no. My ally can roll to resist my Create Light, if he wants to.

The manual even says that Effect spells doesn't require a defense roll to resist JUST because they are benefical effect, BUT if a target wanted to resist, then they are allowed a Defense/Resistance roll. So...they are treated like attacks. Just "benefical" attacks that no ones usually try to defend against.

The manual alone doens't prevent you from casting those with either Module, the only thing that makes slightly more sense is to divide into 2 categories: Passives and Actives.

The very names "Attack Module" and "Defense Module" were ill-choosen, since the wording is not making any reference to Attacks or Spiritual, but to a non-existent "offensive spell" type.

If this seems far-fetched, go read the whole manual over and over and make your own opinion. I couldn't be presented with a better one, so I'll stick to this.

If a WarriorMentalist with Psychic Projection Module can use all his powers for 100 DP, why can not a Warlock for 150 DP?

urk, that's roughly all the stuff that went through my head already, and I couldn't come to a solid decision myself, I guess I'll have to just leave it up to a GM until core exxet. Thank you all for the input, it all makes sense in both cases, but that's the real problem, its fair they should get all their spells if a WAR/MEN would get it, but it also is indeed worded funny...

This system is like a good woman, a million headaches but still worth it.

Note that Magic Projection is also split into "attack" and "defense". I always have a -30 imbalance (causing -30 to attack and +30 to defense) to magic projection.

My Opinion: As far as the rules read any spell that effects anyone else is an "attack" and anything that effects you is a "defense". If it effects you and other people that's for the GM to decide, but probably an attack. There are some obvious defenses and attacks, but remember that most spells mentioned as attacks that are not harmful could be used as an attack in extremely rare circumstances-the light spell is a simple spell that doesn't "attack" anybody, unless it's a living shadow. Then all of a sudden it becomes a potent weapon to remove the shadow from existence, or at least weaken it drastically, as a "level 2" spell, but what are the chances of meeting one of those?

It seems fairly obvious to me, from the fact magic projection is split into attack and defense, that a warlock with both modules should be able to use any spell as they read with either his attack or defense value, as that a wizard with an imbalance has the same thing. However which spells use attack and which use defense is up to the GM/ST/Whatever you call him.