I looked at the crusader, more than once and again came to the conclusion, that the OPnes of the Vindicare spoils the Crusader.
To give one career all physical attributes es unnatural and most of the other careers none is just plain stupid.

Why bother being the strongest to gain massive strenght bonus ans thus damage in melee when the vindicare only has to buy one advance to be better?

Why bother to be tough as a rock when the vindicare has but to take another advance and he's tougher still?

All other physical careers are inferior to the vindicare on all but the social field. So if your character is not social you're trashed.

I know you can have fun by roleplaying without good stats. But being the one who rocks just now and than is something I need to turely enjoy Roleplaying.
Labouring to get by is what we all have every day.

And my solution to the problem is very simple: I will never again join a game where someone plays a Vindicare.
I we start over some time in the future I will just say: No Vindi or I'm gone. The vindicare destoys other peoples fun.

I don't know your motivations to play games. I don't care whether you play or not. But you're wrong. I guess since you never tried...

Some expensive Unnatural Strength doesn't turn a Vindicare into a melee specialist, other careers are way better suited (and no sane GM or Vindicare Grandmaster would induct someone with a melee focus either). Exitus weaponry can barely make guns worthwhile at high level. Shall I crunch the numbers for you on Aimed 4 DoS Exitus Rifle single shots vs. Lightning Attack Eviscerators or Storm of Blows with two Power Fists, possibly combining attacks using the Dual Strike mechanics? The latter can reach 3-digit DPR no Righteous Fury and is more flexible with regard to absorption or number of Dodges too. Of course overshadowed only by Psykers which you happened to ignore in you broad statement.

Unnatural Toughness with armor capped at AP3 . Okay often Toughness is better but it's not cheap, double is not that many points more unless you invest into it. The same with Unnatural Strength (if someone bothers to spend 2000xp on it) for a +3-5 SB where others buy cheap Crushing Blow and wear Power Armor - and suddenly they somehow gained more for a lot less xp. The pattern continues. It's all a tradeoff.

Obviously you've never actually built Ascension characters from those tables and you never had to decide what actually makes sense to buy, either to enhance individual strengths or cover weaknesses. Once you can't have it all it looks very different.

And I agree, even if a Stormtrooper does not have the skills to command, he definitely is the man to turn to first for his unique approach to the IG. Nothing can replace the immediate trust and comradship among those who have served, exchanging stories about their experiences and all that.

Chester said:

According to RAW there is no reason a Stormtrooper without any peer and Fel 20 should be better in speaking with guardsmen than any other char with Fel 60 and even peer (military).

And not everyone uses Powerarmor. Most missions we have been on lasted longer than the powerpack of a civilian PA, so it would've been useless.
Because of that I don't see the possobility to wear PA as a reason that the Stormtrooper is better in melee that the Vindicare.

And yes, the ST has crushing blow. Instead the Vindicare has assasin strike. Most other melee talents are on both lists.

But it is ok. I accept, that you (seemingly all of you) are of different opinion.
If you like playing Crusader or Stormtrooper alongside a vindicare, do so. I didn't and will not in the future.

You forced me to make this.

This is not true, it's only meant as a joke, please don't take seriously.

You may consider it a joke, but that's actually what happens with a Vindicare on board whenever the team rolls Initiative.

Well, I found it funny.

And it's funny because it's true.

Chester said:

sorry if this is necro

having never got to this point i may be missing something, but the one option i have never seen mentioned is to play the Vindicare as written in the fluff.

let me explane. in the fluff the Vindicare is considered the last word in ranged killing. think the movie sniper but mor extreame. shots from 3 miles or more after waiting for days to get the one shot. so if a player was to play this carracter correctly, he should not ever be in the party, he should be haning out 50 stories up the hive stack batman style after having to climb up thier barehanded or some nonsence . the biggest problem seems to be this dodge thing he has going on, well if the Vindicare is having to dodge anything it is because he has failed and been detected. and yes fluff wise he is able to do that, but only as a last resort. granted in a fedual setting this may be a bit harder but should not be impossible.

sorry if i somehow missed this in an earler post.

Rank 2 guardsmen with autocannons kill a vindicare real nice.

Also, high tier Force Barrage, or Force Storm from Black Crusade, can overpower vindicare dodges.