Hey guys, I looked around to see if there was some sort of introductory of Dark Heresy on here, but I did not necessarily see anything like what I am looking for, so I'm creating a new topic.

My Fiancee and I just started a DH game GM'd by one of her friends, and have so far played 2 sessions, using pre-gen characters and one of the pre-made games. Ultimately it lead to a mostly TPK when the scum in the group chucked some grenades into a room full of promethium. So all but 1 of us is rolling new characters, unfortunately I'm waiting for my book to arrive via mail. We did however borrow some of the rulebooks prior to starting the game.

My impression of Dark Hersey is that the game is mostly broken down into
1. Investigation- finding the "problem" (research, investigating, etc)
2. Extermination- removing the "problem" (i.e. combat)
With most of the classes fitting into one or both of these 2 roles.

Some of the classes seem strait forward.
-Adept- strong in research, but not combat.

-Guardsman- the beatstick /meatshield/ warrior- strong in combat but not in investigation or research.

-Psykers- your "mages" of the 40k universe.

-Assassins- your damage dealing "rogues" of 40k. Can't soak up the damage that a guardsman can, but probably deals more out.

-Scum- my impression is that they are similar to Assassins, but stronger at the "investigation" aspect (with their connections to the less desirables of society) but weaker at damage dealing. Also seem to get hosed in the starting package compared to Assassins.

-Arbitrators- with my initial impression of the game, it seems like they could be some of the stronger character types- good at investigation and damage dealing.

-Clerics- I'm familiar enough with the 40K fluff that my initial assumption was that Clerics play the roll of DnD's Bard class (since I know they aren't healers). Providing buffs/ bonuses to moral, skill checks, and such. My pre-gen was a cleric, and I did not see anything of this in the character. It seems like the class is more of a fighter class with less options than other fighters, but with religious knowledge for research (Similar to Arbitrators in that they cover both sides, but not as good as the Arbites).

-Tech-Priests- I really don't get where this class fits in. My initial impression is that it is a class that is not that useful in lower levels but gets better as the party obtains better gear at higher lvls. I don't remember seeing anything that allow them to build/create inventions and such like a Arcane Mechanik or Bodger from the Iron Kingdoms RPG. So I'm guessing they shine in the upkeep and maintenance of more expensive gear and vehicles once a Party gets into higher lvls?

I'm leaning on my Fiancee on making an arbitrator, as it fits with her "police state mentality" of following the rules at all costs. Also It's an easy class to explain since she is not familiar with the 40K universe.

I'd be tempted to play a arbitrator as well, but if I did, it would leave our 4 player party with 3 Arbites (the one surviving pre-gen is one too I think).

The initial character "ideal" I had was sort of a bounty-hunter/gun for hire gunslinger (I know there is the Metallican Gunslinger prestige-type class, and if I remember correctly, you can start off with this class as well, as a lvl 1 Scum or Assassin? (Think Star Wars- Cad Bane, or Necromunda's Kal Jerico)

Anyway, would anyone care to debunk my false impressions, or give any advice to a newcomer? What purpose do Clerics and Tech-priests actually server? I'm not that familiar with the Inquisitorial aspect of the fluff, but I get the gist. I grew up playing 40k circa rogue trader and 2nd ed (and I absolutely loved Necromunda) , along with playing the old Hogshead WH RPG.

First, the careers aren't quite as black and white as you pointed them to be, especially with a lot of the options for them that come in many of the supplements, but as generalizations go, you're on the right track.

For the two you're having trouble with, they provide several things to a group. First, both the Tech-Priest and the Cleric tend to be the big money men of most groups. The only thing that tops them in income is nobles. As niches go, I tend to view the Cleric as the reverse Scum; where the scum is a low-class info gatherer who can deal damage, the Cleric is a high-class info gather who can deal damage -both are the two best social classes. The Tech-Priest is good for general upkeep as well as dealing with any odd or annoying tech-problem the group might face (need to get that machine spirit of the data stack to talk to you; it helps to have a Tech-Priest...) but they are also capable of becoming some truly nightmarish damage dealing tanks as they progress. They can become some truly frighting unstoppable metal monstrosities towards the end of their path.

It's still really hard to pigeon-hole them down into explicate areas because they tend to overlap one another in capabilities a lot... except the Psyker. They are the only specialist at dishing out corruption points to the entire group.

i`ll go along with what has been said already. personaly i think psykers get over powering fast after psy 3. i had a psyker turned assassin/bodyguard. what a nightmare, wasn`t fun too play with or against anymore. had a room full with 120 gangers send in the psy 6 psykic asssassin after one turn oh oops sorry 40 are already dead we will work on the rest later.

teck priest can be tricky too play and you need someone playing it who knows where he or she want too go with him. priest and scum are fun in that they can get your party into places with talking insaid of blowing away those that stand in your way. how ever minor down side not everybody will be happy too see ether in there social groep (high don`t like low and low don`t like high)

arbi and guard are the meatshields where the arbi can still do some thinking work guardsman is there too kill things and get shot at

assassins (normal ones not the psyick ones) can be fun, you could build them to social. or total cqc insane killing machines

and if you realy need someone too tell you what going on and the others havn`t got a clue ask the adapt he might know. just keep him away from the combat he likely to do mora damage then good too you (unless you make him a medic, then he might be useful)

redhead222 said:

Best of both worlds: Noble-born (homeworld from the Inquisitor's Handbook) Scum. Gets all the Scum Fellowship advances, plus Peer: Nobility and another Peer talent chosen from a list and Noble monthly income (500/month). For party support, take Barter and make your free Peer talent Peer: Merchants. Cheap Fel advances, +10 to Fel checks with merchants (which Barter is), and higher income than anybody in the party means whatever it is you're looking for, you can find it, haggle the price down, and buy it on the spot.

Back on-topic: You have the general swing of the games right (investigate to find the heresy, then combat to eliminate it), but you're not taking the setting into account, which is why you don't see the utility of the Adept, Cleric and Tech-Priest. Remember the Imperium is a highly fragmented, codependent setup. There are really three main powers in the Imperium: the Administratum (the government bureaucracy, filled with Adepts), the Mechanicum (in charge of any and all technology higher than a hammer, filled with Tech-Priests), and the Ministorum or Ecclesiarchy (the Church, filled with Clerics). Each has a "separate but equal" kind of relationship with the others, complete with power plays, squabbles, intrigue, etc.

What does that mean? Imagine you're investigating the murder of a bishop in Hive Sibellus on Scintilla. You go to talk to the fathers at the cathedral, but you don't have a Cleric in your group. Now further imagine that the bishop was murdered by elements of the Lord Governor Subsector's secret police for whatever reasons, and they threatened the fathers to not talk. How hard is it going to be to get them to talk to someone from their own branch of the Imperium? Pretty hard, right, maybe a -10 or -20. But wait, you don't have a Cleric. That difficulty jumps to -30 or -40, because they're definitely not going to risk their lives to talk to a random group of people off the street.

Want to investigate the hive's data stacks? Adepts make it oh so much easier to get in. Need to identify what kind of techno-sorcery was used to get into the manufactorum (or get in yourself after hours without tipping off the machine spirits of the watcher devices)? Better have a Tech-Priest.

However, you are right that Arbitrators are wonderful to have around. But their number one utility (at least in the early game) is a simple piece of starting kit: the Arbitrator ID. With that ID/Badge, you wield all kinds of authority over the common citizens of the Imperium, and a decent bit over everybody. As a member of the Adeptus Arbites, you have legal jurisdiction over every single Imperial citizen that isn't a Tech-Priest or a member of the Ecclesiarchy (Arbites are the lawgivers, enforcers, and internal affairs division of the Adeptus Terra; in fact, a high-ranking Judge wields power on par with that of an Inquisitor). If the situation in question violates Imperial Law (dealing mainly with rebellion and the Imperial Tithe), then the Arbitrator has a case for wielding authority over even Tech-Priests and Clerics as well, though that gets into those power struggles I talked about.

So, yeah. Dark Heresy is all about situation and modifiers. Having the right "class" in the right place at the right time can turn something that's impossible to do into something that's pretty easy. Cleric trying to get through a sealed blast door? Not gonna happen. Tech-Priest in his situation? Lights some incense, says a prayer to the machine spirit, pops open an access panel, crosses two wires, and soothes the spirit by annointing the machinery with sacred machine oil (Tech-Use +10, or maybe even Trade: Wright +20).

This rather depresses me in terms of possible accuracy to the setting.

The Adeptus Arbites actually have little to do with 'power over every citizen'. They are the organisation that polices local government compliance to the strictures of the Adeptus Administratum, typically ensuring that local planetary governors and their governance maintains faith and loyalty to the Imperium, and meets their obligations towards the tithes (providing resources, Imperial Guard foundings, and suppressing mutation and psykers). The Adeptus Arbites also represents the first military line of defence for the Imperium in suppressing planetary rebellion. An Arbites block house is capable of holding out and maintaining a bridgehead for weeks or months in the face of a rebellious planet - long enough for an Imperial Guard of Adeptues Astartes releif force to arrive. In fact, many rebellions are put down by the Arbites before the need to bring in outside help.

Unfortunately, Dark Heresy confused them with 'local police', which would typically be provost forces, etc. Actually that's probably not too fair since Necromunda set the precedent here. Like so much on 40k its confusing.

Personally, i'd have called this class 'investigator', or 'law enforcer' or something, since that's what it is - and what the Adeptus Arbites isn't.

Irrespective of this, i'd take issue that the Arbites class brings an ID badge and authority that other classes don't. Now, i'll tread somewhat carefully here since the issue of 'authority' was hotly debated when the game was first released...but the authority of ANY other organisation in the Imperium pales to insignifance when compared to the Inquisition. An Inquisitor is the highest authority, after the Emperor himself. IN THEORY...and there's a mass of debate out there about what that actually means in practice.

However, the PCs are technically part of the Inquisition (although exceptionally lowly (redshirts?) members). None-the-less, a quick flash of the Inquisitorial symbol should be enough to get most people to cooperate. You don't need an Arbites for that.

I guess its worth reading through Ascension though for Dark Heresy's take on how the Inquisition works, etc.

Thus is demonstrated one of the great pitfalls of Dark Heresy players (new AND old sadly).

The name of the Career doesn't mean jack squat for the Career, for most of them.

A Cleric can just be a feral world shaman who could be considered a heretic by the Ministorum at large, if they were to examine his beliefs more carefully (even if the Emperor is still the god he preaches for). While an "Arbite" can be anything from an actual Arbites officer (and for the record, the grunts don't have that much authority over anyone), to a planet's local constabulary or gendemarie, to a bounty hunter like Harlon Nayl. Likewise, a "Guardsman", is just a more thematically approprate name for the Career than "soldier".

About the only Career that is what it actually says on the can, is the Tech-Priest, cause even if you're taking your game down a route where you're a Heretek instead, you're still a Tech-Priest when it comes right down to it.

(Assassin, Psyker, etc., are all suitably vague that they don't seem to indicate any specific group within the Imperium, like the others do.)

Edit:

"However, the PCs are technically part of the Inquisition (although exceptionally lowly (redshirts?) members). None-the-less, a quick flash of the Inquisitorial symbol should be enough to get most people to cooperate. You don't need an Arbites for that."

A common overestimation of just how much authority and importance the PC's have (at lower levels).

Hi Hedkase,

you alread got most of the useable information. What was a little "low keyed" was the usability of a Tech-Priest. Depending on the environment you end up playing your missions (Hive world, void ships, ash wastes, settlements, wilderness) a Tech-Priest can either be somewhat useless or a real blessing. They have easy access to the "Tech-Use" skill which is used for nearly anything "techy" by most modules I know of. They are no good in social situations, so. And hard to roleplay for somebody lacking any background knowledge of 40k.

If you and/or your group have access to supplement "Blood of Martyrs", a Cleric (or any other pc with "Common Lore (Imperial Creed)") becomes very useful against daemonic enemies and in keeping your insanity and corruption low.

As mentioned, any class can be "tailored" a little more be clever decisions about the "Origin". If you want a fighter who is also good with people, get a hiver or a noble and choose a high Fellowship early on. Make sure you get your chance to study the option ins "Inquisitors Handbook" (you already mentioned the Metallican Gunslinger). It offers a wide spectrum of "starting packages" which allow to tailor your pc.

People need to not be such ponces.

For the most part, the limitations of the characters comes down to you and your GM's imagination. Just as everything in roleplaying games, the rules are simply guidelines and you can bend or break them as you see fit. So long as you and the rest of your group agree on it and are having fun.

That being said, I don't think that was the topic of discussion.

Adepts certainly can just be a knowledge source, and many people play them that way, but they could also be a tactician or a medic, a hacker or a layabout. I have a friend who plays a noble adept who just has many peer abilities and plays him as an adrenaline junky. Sort of a rich thrill seeker.

Arbitrators are generally the lawmen of the universe, and they are a strong force in the party, but they can add much more to the dynamic of the group. Some pursue justice, some law. In a lot of ways arbitrators tie the group to the imperium as a whole.

Assassins can be some cultist assassin who has been ordained by the holy empire to smite heretics. Really, assassins can be a lot more as well. Assassins are anyone who hunts or kills for a living. I've had people play hive mutant bounty hunters and feral worlder trackers/hunters.

Clerics tend to be a more social class, able to interact and inspire people, and if those people decide to be hostile they can purge them with holy fire. Clerics will act as a moral compass in most cases and will often act as a group leader, talking with people and leading the charge into battle with a pistol and chainsword in their hands.

Guardsmen are really the meat of the group. They seem to be a catch all for the game, and tend to be a bit bland at the lower levels, but great Rp opportunitues. The Guardsmen are capable ranged and melee fighters, and can be good leaders, inspiring and advising the group in tactics. Their connections to the military can also come in handy with interactions.

Psykers are a whole different style of play, and with their abilities have a great many options and can be a bit overpowered, but apart from roleplaying options and story possibilities, they are mainly damage dealers and healers. Biomancers can make a party's delving into chaos catacombs a walk in the park, and a telekinetic will punch holes through most things. They can also be almost as good of a knowledge base as adepts, and if they go down the templar path they can be melee tanks as well. Then you add in the other schools, such as divination and telepathy makes them great at investigation and they can be effective snipers as well. Really, psykers can be quite versatile (one of the most versatile), they just achieve it through different means and are an entirely different play style.

Scum is a very broad class. They can be long range combatants or melee fighters. I've seen someone play them as a tank and as a trader. The talents scum get really lend themself to social characters. They are the people who know a guy who can get that thing you want. Scum are an essential part of any group if utilized correctly, and you can play them almost any way you want.

Tech priests can serve a number of roles. They are terrible at interacting with other people, but they are the absolute best when it comes to logic, reasoning, interacting with computers, and certain knowledges. They can run along the same lines as an adept when it comes to a knowledge base, and they are also great with repairs and tech use. They tend to be the best drivers as well. On top of this, Tech Priests can be a mobile firing platform, mounted with all sorts of guns with which to deliver heaps of metal, or they can be whirling gnashing metal that will chomp people up in close combat. Tech priests also have a number of unique utility abilities that make them very useful. They can charge batteries, create light, levitate, can be very strong and have a natural armor later on (They can have the highest AC amongs all characters in ascension level and make the best tanks). Tech priests are fantastic, and fill many vital roles. They are simply more specialized.

All of these classes have the option of being expanded or altered with alternate career advances and cross class skills. Talk with your GM and work something out. Think of a character concept and then build around it.

P.S. I play a metallican gunslinger as one of my characters and it is quite fun, He is a powerful character. The one problem I see with them is the fact that they lack some other useful skills and they peak really quickly. At low levels you will be overpowered and at later levels you just wont have anything left to spend xp on other than social skills.

The classes are all very broad and, while you can go down their specialised route, you can also go on tangents. I'll list one of each of my characters to help with the first two classes.

Adept: Jotheni Berkell has spent her entire life in devoted service to the Administratum, carefully cataloguing the population data of Spire Aquila. Once added to the acolyte group, she rapidly became the brains of her party. She excels in data-sifting and can find a scale on a grox-back. She can read at a speed that would strain a servitor and can interface readily with most non-Mechanicus data sources.

INT and FEL through the roof, almost every Common, Scholastic and Forbidden Lore in the game available. Can interact well with, has contacts in and respect from the Administratum and Academia. If you want to find any piece of data, regardless of how obscure, hidden, concealed or forbidden, the go-to girl. Hoiwever, she is squishy, lighly armoured and relatively useless in combat, having only an (admittedly rather kitted-out) autopistol to defend herself.

Alt Adept: Jorus Corvin was an Imperial Quastor, a noble from Gunmetal City, hated by the Imperial Guard for his over-zealous reallocation of munitions and his execution of several favoured quartermasters. After a trip through the warp went awry, his latent psychic powers awoke, forcing him to evade the authorities he once answered to so he can avoid being Sanctioned. A sniper par excellance, he is now part of "Team Kill" in his Acolyte group.

INT, WP and PER through the roof, decent BS, Medicae skills like nobody else (testing on 105 or less), Psy Rating 3 with Divine Shot, specialised lores in Xenology, Heresy, Cults and Daemonology, Awareness +20, heavy armour and Dodge with Step Aside. Can find info, but much prefers to find heads through the scope of his Nomad. Hacker, forger and all-round sneaky bugger, he still has contacts and can use them, but doesn't have the charisma to make it properly work to his advantage.

Arbitrator: Colm Ganden rose steadily through the ranks of his local Enforcer Cadre on the Imperial world on which he was born until he was noticed by a visiting Arbites official, Transferred and given new training, the young man saw and did things that made him more staunchly loyal to justice than ever. He can track down scum in any terrain and is tough enough to bring them in regardless of opposition. His shotgun and shock maul are feared instruments of the Imperium, but his mind is his main weapon. He can and will use political and technological means to destroy corruption and dispense justice on a foe.

TGH, INT and FEL are this guys trade. He finds out things. Many things. And then he punches people. A lot. His contacts in the underworld means he can find and requisition weapon and gear that no-one else could even find, and he's not above sparking gang wars to flush out his quarry. He will use any means necessary to get his man.

Alt Arby: Diona Borgia (AKA “Alpha”) was born into House Aquila in the Spire of the same name. Learning the art of investigation via her House's Senschal and the arts of war from her bodyguards, the young noble was disaffected and bored, completely unprepared when the Dark Eldar attacked. Many oin her house were killed, or worse, taken screaming into the webway by the raiders. Left scarred and almost dead, the girl clung to life fuelled only by her need for vengeance. She was discovered by agents of Inquisitor =][=SEALED=][= and rebuilt her family fortunes quickly, with the sole purpose of assisting the Inquisitor hunt the xenos down. Now, 17 years on, has the skills and training to finally take the fight to them.

She has no "Arbites" abilities at all. Arbitrator to her is just a career framework. She is just very, very good at finding things and then killing them. She has her STR, TGH, WP, WS and BS maxed, STR not far behind. INT and FEL mean nothing, except for how they help track xeno-spoor. She has Elite Advances in Xenographical and Ecclesiarchal knowledge and training in the xeno's heretical weapons, but she is protected by her Pure Faith, which she wields as a weapon agianst those who profane the galaxy with their presence. Purge the xeno, listen not to its lies.