This is a question that actually came up during one of our DW game and that I couldn't answer...

What is the stance of the Imperial Creed on life after death?

Considering religions are in no small part around to answer that very question and to keep people in line ("Yes, your life sucks. But if you remain a faithful and conforming person, you will go to Heaven when you die"), you would think in a world so filled with death and despair, living under the most brutal human regime ever - this would be a pretty big deal.

How does the answer cope with the fact that in the 40k universe, the Warp, Daemon and even Souls are proven to exist?

The general belief among nearly every Imperial citizen is they must earn, through duty (to whatever purpose they have in life); self sacrifice; suplication (prayer to the Emperor); and faith, a place alongside the Emperor. Wherever the Emperor's main conciousness (or whatever) resides. If a person performs his duties to the best of their abilities, believes in the Emperor and his commandments (read: Eccliesiarchy dogma), and is willing to lay down their life for the Imperium they will join the Emperor when they die. The specifics of the beliefs of a certain world varies, sometimes wildly, as the cults of the worlds differ accross space. Some may be catholic like, others could be any type. Although the core tenent still remains.

This core tnent is main belief of nearly all the myriad of Imperial cults. Even Imperial savage worlds will have some form of similar belief system. Of course there are also saints, those persons who have gone far and above the normal call or who have been sainted by the ecclesiarchy for their actions. Imperials tend to think these saints have a larger share of the Emperor's glory in the afterlife, afterall the increadible feats or actions they must have done in life to be considered for sainthood would have made them more desirable to the Big-E. I'm sure many powerful or highly skilled persons would love to be considered for sainthood. Although its likely a process that would take many many years after their death to be confirmed.

Space Marines tend not to believe the same things as the Imperial cult though. Their beliefs don't see the Emperor as a god, but rather simply a powerful man. Their particular belief systems are based upon their recruiting world's cult. As an example, I'm fairly certain the Space Wolves believe in a sort of Valhalla type of an afterlife. Where deserving warriors go to eternal battle and/or to await the final battle (wolf time?). As they consider the Emperor to be the most powerful (and likely deserving) of men to enter their cult's afterlives, I'm certain most Space Marine cults believe the Emperor will be there with them when they die (or the Emperor dies... as it were). Continuing the previous example, I'm sure the Space Wolves wholely expect the Emperor to one day meet in their 'valhalla' realm.

Well THIS is a good question.

This the imperial Cult acepts everything that has the Emperor as center as part of the imperial creed there could be many different ways. I'd say a bit of every religion we have on Terra nowadays. The righteous sit by the E's side, the righteous go on for the eternal war with the E, the righteous will come back if the E is reborn/rises from the Golden Throne again. I would also say that there is some belief inreincarnation could be possible, to be born again to again give your life for the E/mankind. An eternal circle of bein tithed into the Imperial Guard and thrown into the meat grinder of war to be born again for a rerun... if that isn't grimdark i don't know what is.

I also read that the souls of the dead go into the warp, but I'm not sure if this was a statement of a fact or part of religion.

I did not found an answer on the lexicanum but I found a few quotes "I long for death, not because I seek peace but because I seek war eternal."

or "Men united in the purpose of the Emperor are blessed in his sight and shall forever live in his memory."

Heaven or Elysium or whatever might be 'the Emperor's Light" to become part of his memory. Well let's not forget the Astronomican here and that the E is fed with psykers. Maybe he also consumes the faithfull souls. Gods eat souls in WH40k... So that could be could be considered afterlife.

You have given your life for the Emperor and you are supposed to give him his soul too...

Man... I CAN'T wait for Black Crusade... Death to the Corpse God!

Ear-of-Terror said:

Aye, I remembered that bit too.

Which is part of the problem...

Picture a human who lives in a Forgeworld. Day in and day out, is life consist of waking up, going to work in some forge on the same piece of equipment. He doesn't even know what the piece of equipment does or what the finished product is. Everyday he pushes his body to the limit and breath in noxious fumes. Food is bland and poor in nutriment. Nights are short and breaks are few. By 13 years old, he's probably starting to loose teeth. Hair by 16. By 20, his lungs are so ravaged that he often cough blood and simply cannot work as fast anymore, meaning he's relegated to an even worse station in the factory. At 25, his body is spent - he is an old man waiting for death.

Would anybody stand for this if there wasn't a promise of somekind of heaven/afterlife? If the religious dogma is downright telling you 'Yes, your life sucks, and once your die, your soul will be cast out into the warp to be eaten up by hungry deamons' - well, you'd figure the rate of revolts and chaos would be all over the place... you might as well die fighting to try and increase your lot in life rather then spend it in a living hell when you're going to an unliving hell when you die.

What more, if your soul is going to end up as daemon chow anyway... is there any real point to not worshipping Chaos? You might as well get power/fellowship in your life and hope that when you die, the daemon will be merciful on their servants.

Now the way Herichimo puts it make sense from an Imperial Creed point of view. They'd have to be stupid NOT to include somekind of 'Heaven' to placate the masses.

But the big questions becomes - is it true?

This isn't our world, where we need to rely on Faith - in the 40K universe, the Emperor truly exist, he truly is powering the Astronomicon, Daemon are truly out there and the Soul isn't just an abstract concept that can't be proven... it can be affected by psychic powers - and such, is probably quantifiable in some way. In other words, in the 40k universe, you don't so much believe as you KNOW.

Now granted, with the way the Imperium treat knowledge, only the highest ranked (and thus knowledgeable and powerful) would know the truth. Powerful psycher should definitly know what happens to a soul when the body dies. Which is kinda scary really. Because if powerful people of the Imperium suddenly know that there is no point to this charade... things would just fall apart.

Ergo, you have to surmise that at least some of is true. Just how much so is up to debate tho.

b]Herichimo[/b], how much of what you put up there is your own interpretation and how much of it is actual 'official' info?

This is completely hypothetical on my part but I like to believe that those who are 'bathed in the light of the emperor', meaning any world within the astronomicon's reach, would not be prey for demons in the warp when a person dies.

I'm not sure if there even is that much canon about it.

I read the Ravenor Omnibus, and if Ravenor is no top ranking psyker then noone is...

And enough peole die in the book, but I can't remember anything about the afterlife in there. Not the ravenor is the epitome of canon but it's seldom getting into more detail then with what Abnett writes.

And about that said certain Bob the Builder of the Forge World... there have been times in recent terran history when people lived under the exact same circumstances (minus the daemons), that's called Industrial Revolution . I think that poor Bob thinks about his family, his sick mom and pregnant wife and the four mouth he already has to feed. I also doubt that all Forge World are eating people up THAT fast, not out of mercy but to have a larger group of workers.

Now back to your question. I think the reward that's promised is just that in giving all you've got for the Emperor your sinfull existance will be forgiven. I also doubt that the souls of the dead are food to some daemons, I still think they are food for the big E.

Try it like that: If the Eldar's decadence could create Slaanesh, the Emperor could surely snuck up the souls of his believers before the other Four do so, except in cases where daemons are actually present or one gets sucked into the warp by botching ones PSI roll.

Meaning: I agree with jareddm.

Tarkand said:

I don't know how it works now, but I know early variants of Judaism posited all souls went to Sheol, a grim place devoid of God's presence. Yet the Jews still made the Covenant with God in return for being the chosen nation and ruling in this world. I think the Imperial Creed works similarly - your devotion to the God-Emperor and obeying the Imperial authorities ensure the continued existence and dominance of Mankind in the galaxy. With the right upbringing an indoctrination, this can be an equally powerful motivator as the promise of happy afterlife.

Ear-of-Terror said:

Well, just because Ravenor doesn't talk about it doesn't mean it's not there. Abnett probably just didn't want to tell a story that went all metaphysical on his readers.

And one of the big difference between Bob the Forgeworlder and Bob the Industrial Revoliton guy is that in the real world, brokering a deal with daemon doesn't work. In the 40k Universe, it does. And if it's common knowledge that when you die, the Daemons gets your soul anyway... what's the point of not giving it to him right away? At least that way, you get some enjoyment of your earthly life before you die... so logically, there has to be somekind of safeguard against this. So yeah, I agree with Jareddm too... I just wonder how far the 'protection' goes and how much your average imperial citizen knows about all of this.

You have to keep that in mind when making comparaison with real life setting - in the real world, when your life suck, there is no deamon for you to make a deal with. Same goes for the angle Morangis is showing - would judaism had stuck around with such a bleak outcome if you could turn around, make a deal with a daemon and become a super man? Probably not.

I don't think it's common knowledge that there are daemons around. At least not with an emphasis on "know"

Doesn't every planet and sitre that hade daemon contact get purged and the people taken in by the =I=?

I'm not very sure here but I think I read something along those lines.... *tries to remember and fails*

As I read it the presence of deamons is not common knowledge, whole regiments of Guardsmen are "lost" and even the Astartes are mind scrubbed and never really the same again after having fought winning battles against the tainted and corrupt, the concept of Chaos is something that only a select few know about, a well guarded secret that the defenders of the Imperium needs to keep that way in order to dotheir jobs.

As for the soul it seems to be a very real thing (soul stones anyone) that you can trade or bargain with to gain favours from the ruinous powers, however the covenant with the emperor is the same, you bargain your soul to him in exchange for protection here in the physical life and in the after life were you go to serve him at the big throne in the sky or what not. Variants of the theme exists from world to world, some might believe that you are reincarnated until your soul becomes pure enough to join the lord of mankind, others might be monodoctrinal and believe that you only get one life, others again might believe that this is the afterlife and that when people die they go to the real world... Heem thats a good idea for a Garden World setting, now how to make it scary...

Regarding Bob the ForgeWorlder, He's more likely Adherent to the Omnissia than Imperial Creed. From the AdMech view, while flesh is weak it is inefficient to have a worker's effective productive life to be less than double the non-productive life, granted this would only extend worst case to 39 years based on 13.

Life span and view of the Imperial Creed is drastically different between worlds and even then drastically different between layers of a hive. Sure, there's a constant level of suppression that presses down(figurative and literal).

I don't recall the source, but I remember reading a passage where a Space Marine shares his reluctance on using a Teleportarium by saying "Every time this device is activated I'm convinced that I will appear at the side of the Emperor." Seems like a clear belief in an Afterlife to me...

Adeptus-B said:

That's an Imperial Fist Terminator! Lysander Darnath by name.

That's how I remember it... IF I remember correctly.

And that quote would at least prove that the IFs believe in an afterlife that's somehow valhalla-ish.

as far as i remember most versions of the creed will tell there followers that after there deaths if they have been good little followers the emperor will gather up there souls and protect them.

minor shift for the IG and probly the navy too. that after there death they will join the emperor in the eternal battle against the beyond

how it is presented too the masses would diver somewhat on the local believe system already there and tradision and decreed and ad enfinitum

(i hope i spelled that right?)

Citizen of the imperium believe in a life after death where the "good" going at the Emperor side and the "bad" forever lost in the inferno of warp as their souls are unprotect by the emperor light.

The valour of life and death are quite different from a world to an other (spiritually spocken, because for the administratum it is only numbers), read dead men walking, where average imperial citizen from a hive world meet with the death korps from krieg. Their you could see what is a cultural trench...

"Civilised" imperial worlds are harder (more brutal and severe) than our world but mostly have the same relationship with life and death. Then more the world is dangerous and/or violent for the human life more the price of life is low, and most of the time the spiritual and realty of death became central in the cult.