As a quick side note, I just received Miskatonic and felt that I should give voice to my concurence with the general consensus here: the Bureau's "On the Case" ability is really quite spectacularly useless. It defies belief that this was considered balanced. I mean, I know the game is supposed to be brutal, but "On the Case" essentially qualifies as a sucker test.

Now, to the main issue: if you are reduced to 0 Sanity or Stamina in an encounter, do you complete the encuonter? To better illustrate the point, I will provide three examples from different sections of the spectrum.

First, a St. Erasmus's home encounter from Kingsport, one of many that follow the same template: "Danny Houghton, half dozing in his chair, begins to talk, muttering about the horrible creatures he's seen during his time at sea. Lose 1 Sanity and gain 1 Clue token." Now, it makes sense that these things would happen at the same time, based on the wording. Thus, even if you are reduced to 0 Sanity, you still gain the Clue.

Second, a St. Mary's Hospital encounter from the base game: "The corpse you are examining isn't quite dead yet. It reaches out and grabs you by the throat. Lose 1 Sanity. Then, you must fight the corpse. If you pass a Combat (-1) check, you defeat it and gain 1 Clue token. Otherwise, move to the street." This is similar, but it seems to me like it might work differently. The sanity loss and clue are clearly presented s two different items. Is this caused by the fact that the statements are seperated by "then," or by the fact that there is a check separating them? If it were worded as "Lose 1 Sanity and pass a Combat (-1) check to gain a Clue token," would that be different?

Third, a Congregationl Hospitral encounter from Kingsport: "You explore an ancient crypt in the cemetary and come across a giant mass of white grave worms. Lose 2 Sanity. In addition, any Crawling Ones in Arkham (including the Sky and the Outskirts) move here and encounter you." If we are following the belief that the entire encounter is resolved before you are carted off to the Asylum/Hospital, this encounter would seem to challenge that. Normally, a monster battle stops when you're reduced to 0 Sanity or Stamina; is this the only exception to the rule of finishing an encounter first?

Sorry this was so long-winded, but, in summary: if you are reduced to 0 Sanity or Stamina in an encounter, do you complete it? If the answer is not a simple yes or no, what is the determining factor? A check? A monster? The word "then?"

Walk said:

Yes, you still get the clue token. They happen at the same time. Of course, depending on the penalty you choose to receive, you may wind up losing the clue anyway.

Walk said:

If you go insane, the encounter is over. The sanity loss occurs first, and then, assuming you're still sane, you go through with the rest of the encounter.

Walk said:

The creatures still move to your space, but if you're insane you'll be at the Asylum and won't have to encounter them.

Also, I had some ideas for how to deal with "On the Case." You put down Agent tokens for one clue each . Then, when checking to see if the agents defeat a monster, you roll dice equal to the number of Agents tokens on the space. If the number of dice showing a 3 through 6 is greater than the toughness of the monster in question, it is removed but no agent is removed. If the number of 3s –6s is less than the toughness, an Agent token is removed. If the number is equal, both the monster and an Agent token are removed. You still check only once per monster per turn.

Yes, but as I said, what is the determing factor? Is it that the effects are given as different sentences or that they are seperated by a skill check?

Simultaneity and investigator activeness. Simultaneous effects still occur, and stuff can occur after you're insane so long as it doesn't involve you. For example, in "lose one sanity and add a doom token to the doom track," the "doom" portion doesn't apply specifically to the investigator, so there's no reason it shouldn't still happen if the first part drives the investigator insane.

Walk said:

To me, this is a clear case of an "<Effect 1> AND <Effect 2>" situation. For a change, the rules as written and common sense intersect.

Timing Conflicts (from page 23 of the AH rulebook)
If two or more game effects happen simultaneously, the players choose the order in which they occur. If the players cannot agree, the first player decides.

So in this case, the players decide which order these two effect occur. I would hope that would mean you gain the Clue first and then lose the Sanity (in most cases ).

Walk said:

This time we have effects occurring at different points in time. "<STEP 1> THEN <STEP 2>"

STEP 1
Lose 1 Sanity <Effect 1>

STEP 2
Fight the corpse, perform Combat (-1) Check
If defeated then <Effect 2>, gain 1 Clue token.
Otherwise <Effect 3>, move to the street.

To me, this is made clear because in this example we have "Lose 1 Sanity. Then, you ..." So it is the word THEN (and the fact it has "Lose 1 Sanity <fullstop>") that shows we have two separate steps. The first step occurs then the second step is independent of the first.

It doesn't matter if you go insane after the 1 Sanity lose because the second step would still happen. In this case it doesn't matter because there is no lasting effect, even if it said "Then, a Monster appears" it doesn't matter because the Monster would return to the cup after it totally ignores the gibbering jelly on the floor.

Walk said:

I would treat this the same as your example 2. "<STEP 1> THEN <STEP 2>"

STEP 1
Lose 2 Sanity <Effect 1>

STEP 2
Crawling Ones in Arkham (including the Sky and the Outskirts) move here.
If need be, enter Combat "phase" (in this case, optional Evade check, Horror check, Combat check, etc., etc.)

It doesn't matter if you go insane after the 2 Sanity lose because the second step would still happen. In either case, if there are Crawling Ones in play then they move to this location in Kingsport.

I guess this is the sticking point on these questions. Do you "finish" the encounter before being carted of the Asylum. Personally, I would say yes to these examples you gave. The closest I could give concerning a ruling on this is on page 6 of the v1.2 FAQ. "However, once an encounter is drawn, it must be resolved before any more actions can be performed." and I would take that being carted off to the Asylum should be considered a separate action that only occurs after the Encounter but that's just my opinion.

Walk said:

I'm glad you gave actual examples here because it allows us to be specific to the question at hand. From the examples I would say that the Encounter is completed first before the move to the Asylum or Hospital occurs. I think that the use of the words "THEN" and "IN ADDITION" supports this.

Alright...I may return at some point with another example, but for now, that would seem to cover it. Thank you.