I'm thinking of rewriting the Dark Heresy advancement tables with an eye towards making a more open progression - one where character types that often fall into the cracks between Careers can still come out strong. In essence, there will be a single progression set for each Rank (1-10... I want to expand it to Rank 10). The players will have to realize that the list represents possibilities, but the GM has the final call on what can be purchased with any XP (so not just anyone can take Psy Rating 1 at Rank 1 even though it will appear on the list). Likewise, each character will select three Characteristics to advance at a low cost while the other six will advance at a higher cost (similar to the Adepta Sororitas and Cleric sets), and this selection is fixed once the character is generated. This will allow for variety such as 'Arbitrators' that favor Agility over Toughness and 'Scum' that favor Strength over Fellowship (even though careers are not used, such templates to guide the player and GM can still be softly overlayed on characters).

All Skills and Talents will appear with a cost from 100 to 300. I'm thinking that some Skills and Talents may appear at multiple levels (NOT just as +10/+20 improvements to Skills) with lower costs at higher levels. As an example, Nerves of Steel may appear at Rank 3 for 300, again at Rank 6 for 200, and finally at Rank 9 for 100. It can still be purchased only once, but it gets cheaper (and thus more likely to be purchased) as the character gains Ranks.

Anyways, I can certainly do the work on this, but I really suck with pdfs... Is there anyone that would be willing and able to do a pdf layout when I get the finished tables ready?

others have worked on something like this already

search the site to see what they have come up with

I can't seem to get the search function to work. I may have to resort to digging - or just do it myself without the benefits/baggage of what has come before. In fact, I'll probably be better off to do my own work first and then look at what others propose.

Hi,

I had an idea but it is still in the planning stages. What if you could build your character totally from scratch.

Step I: Choose Home World

Step II: Choose Concept (a 3 word description of your character)

Step III: Choose Profession

Step IV: Choose Primary (3), secondary (3) and tertiary (3) abilities from the trait bar

The advance cost is as follows:

Primary: 100/250/500/750 xp
secondary: 250/500/750/1000 xp
Tertiary: 500/750/1000/2500 xp

Step V: Skills and Talents
Okay this is where it gets a bit tricky
Spend 1.000 xp on skills and talents (Speak Language (Low Gothic) and Melee Weapon Training (Primitive) are free!)

The cost are as follow:
(Taken/+10/+20)

Basic Skills: 100/200/300 xp
Advanced Skills: 200/300/400 xp
(This rule makes homeworlds alot more interesting)

Talents:
I still have to split up talents into cost catagories, my main problem is Psi-Rating, I was thinking the following:

Psy-Rating: 200/400/600/800/1000/1200 xp

Now I only have one problem left, the Tech Priest, I was thinking making their implants a 200 xp Talent/Background

Step VI: Spend 400 xp to finish of the character

I would very much appreciate some feedback!

GrtZ,

Santiago...

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=100&efcid=3&efidt=2730

I did my own alternate character creation system.

an early version is available on Dark Reign.

http://www.darkreign40k.com/house-rules/alternate-character-generation-system-3.html

If you like what you see, PM me and I'll send you a more up-to-date version (tweaked xp costs, etc).

I like the idea of Basic skills for 100 xp and Advanced skills for 200 xp, but instead I'll opt for a requirement that Advanced skills must be added to the character's Basic skills list (for 100 xp) before they can later be trained. Skill mastery levels will likewise cost 100 xp per pick, and a given skill can only be taken (i.e., made Basic, Trained, gain Mastery +10, gain Mastery +20) once per Rank. This means that to take a Basic skill from untrained to +20 would require 300 xp over the course of three Ranks, while to do the same with an Advanced skill would take 400 xp and four Ranks.

All Talents will cost 200 xp.

Weapon Talents will be replaced with equivalent skills.

Untrained penalty for Basic skills will be -20.

Sounds good, my players like random rolling every aspect of their character so keeping the careers helps further divide them and keep the randomness going strong. If they decide to start making their characters bit by bit rather than rolling, I might adopt something like this.

HappyDaze said:

Will these skills have the usual +10/+20 improvements? Couple those with regular WS and BS improvements and combats could get particularly action packed and deadly. Or, will you be elminating WS and BS as stats as well?

What kind of work are you thinking about with regards to PDF?

Kage

Will these skills have the usual +10/+20 improvements? Couple those with regular WS and BS improvements and combats could get particularly action packed and deadly. Or, will you be elminating WS and BS as stats as well?

I have another current thread on the House Rules forum covering this (sorry, but links and quotes on this forum are beyond my computer skills), but briefly - yes, all the usual +10/+20 (even Talented) would apply, and the WS and BS characterisitics would still be around.

Kage2020 said:

I think I might have gotten the quote to work.

I'm just looking for someone that can put my tables and text into something more attractive than a MS Word (or Excel) document. Including art is something I havn't even really thought about. My gaming-fu is rather good, but my computer skills are pretty terrible.

Ah, I probably couldn't help you, though. My computer skills are just dandy, including layout, but I'm not an artist.

Kage

HappyDaze said:

It is pretty easy when you have right tools. Email it to me, and I will make it PDF file in no time. Only problem is that I don’t have right layouts so, I can’t make it look more “pro”. If you are interested, I will give You my email on prv.

A few more tweaks:

All Common Lore skills will be Basic skills. This means that you can try them untrained at the standard -20 for a Basic skill, and represents that the most commonly known portions of lore (the ones with bonuses to know them) really do have a chance to be known by anyone. Obviously anyone familiar with a particular Common Lore (Trained or better) is much more likely to know these facts.

Exotic Melee Weapon (linked to WS) and Exotic Ranged Weapon (linked to BS) will be Basic skills, since (generally speaking) anyone can attempt to pick up and make a clumsy attempt to use the weapon. However, each will still be particular to a specific exotic weapon, so you find Exotic Ranged Weapon (Shuriken Catapult) and Exotic Ranged Weapon (Shuriken Pistol) are seperate. Further, Arms Master will not be available for either Exotic Melee Weapon or Exotic Ranged Weapon (see below). If an exotic weapon has special requirements that prevent general use by the untrained, this should be noted in the weapon's description.

Arms Master is going to be divided by the weapon types, so seperate talents exist as Arms Master (Basic Weapons), Arms Master (Heavy Weapons), Arms Master (Melee Weapons), Arms Master (Pistols), and Arms Master (Thrown Weapons). Each reduces the untrained penalties for untrained skills of that category to -10 instead of -20. The prerequisite will be training in two skills of the matching category, such as Basic Weapons (Las) and Basic Weapons (SP) for Arms Master (Basic Weapons), along with the relevant characteristic (WS for Melee Weapons, BS for all others) at 30.

Where are you getting -20 for untrained Basic Skill?

Reply #5 of this thread.

I prefer a flat -20 to the RAW method of halving of the characteristic. This also follows the RAW use of an untrained weapon type, and since those Talents have become skills, I'm pulling it over to cover all skills.

Another pair of small changes, these just for the sake of my word choice preferences:

Weapon Skill (WS) will be replaced with Close Combat (CC).

Ballistic Skill (BS) will be replaced with Ranged Combat (RC).

These remove 'Skill' from the name of the Characteristics - an oddity I want to overcome - while accurately describing the uses of those Characteristics. Functionally, the new Characteristics will still perform identically to their previous versions.

What is the point of renaming them? The word skill in their name annoy you that much?

What is the point in NOT renaming them? Get the workd 'Skill' out of a Characteristic helps to prevent confusion in a game that uses skills. As for the rest...

Weapon Skill might cause one to assume that it might work with any weapon (like a lasgun) but not with unarmed attacks. I had at least one player - not a hardcore gamer, just a casual player - that actually fell into this until corrected. Close Combat avoids such confusion.

Ballistic Skill is a holdover from WFRP where ranged attack were typically ballistic. In DH, many of them are certainly not. Once again, Ranged Combat covers them all quite well.

Well, that issue should be solved by players actually reading the rules <shrugs>.

Sure, but if I can make it more intuitive and easy to follow with a few simple changes of word choice, that's what I'll do.

Hakken said:

If all someone wanted to do was rip the official designs, then that's not too difficult to achieve. You just have to rip them out of the online publications that have been released, select the appropriate fonts, and then style away in In-Design . Erm, but everyone knows that so, erm, I'll shut up now.

Kage

Yeah, that does sound rather easy...

OK, who am I kidding? To me that might as well be the formula for world peace (of the non-apocalyptic type). I'll still be up for an assit once I get the numbers all banged out.

My current plan for characterisitic generation is to go with a point-buy method. Each character will have 300 points to spend among the nine Characterisitcs (Close Combat, Ranged Combat, Strength, Toughness, Agility, Intelligence, Perception, and Fellowship). For human characters, a minimum starting value of 20 and a maximum starting value of 40 is set for all Characterisitics. This is represented as (Characterisitic) Min/Max: 20/40. Homeworlds may apply a modifier to both minimum and maximum starting values (such as Feral Worlders with Strength Min/Max and Toughness Min/Max values of 25/45 along with Willpower Min/Max and Fellowship Min/Max values of 15/35).

Characteristics can later be increased with the expenditure of experience points. All Characteristics have the same advancement cost for all characters - it is only a matter of choice as to what improvements are most important to a particular character. The costs are set at 200/400/600/800/1000 with each advancement adding +5 to the value of the Characteristic. Each stage of advancement must be purchased sequentially. This means that to take three advancements in a Characteristic (for a total increase of +15 from the starting value) costs 200 + 400 + 600 = 1200 xp. The maximum amount of training possible in a single Characteristic is five advancements (+25 from the starting value).

Once again, this raises the bar and allows for more heroic cinematic heoes such as the types depicted in the WH40K fiction. As I've stated, I want to get away from "Peasants in Space" and into some high-end action and drama with characters that feel larger than life. Those have always been what drew me to 40K, and I'm hoping some others feel that attraction too.