My opponent plays Speak to Dead.

He has to tell me which cards he takes, right?

colormage1 said:

This is a cross post from BGG:

Speak to the Dead still doesn't have the stipulation to reveal any cards taken.

If you want to check my discard pile before and after resolving the effect, then by all means.

But there is nothing that says I have to reveal the cards.
It is the onus of the opponent to keep track of what would be missing, not me showing it to them.

The practical effects are pretty minimal until the late game.

If it is early and I only have 4 cards, I would likely just show it to them to save everyone the time and trouble of sifting through my discard pile.

Late game however, when there is 10 or more cards, I am going to say do your own dirty work and keep track of your own details as that is not my job to do it for you unless the card says otherwise.

Wow - that sounds onerous.

Following that logic, whenever someone says "I play Speak to the Dead", the opponent should say - wait, I want to examine your discard pile first. Take note of what is in there. Then, after you take 2 cards, I want to examine your discard pile again to see the difference.

Why not save the trouble and simply show the two cards? The end effect is the same.

That's like people who "sneak" their resources under domain markers. I usually say "I'm going to resource this card..." to be polite and save the trouble of my opponent asking to see what I've done.

I guess it depends on the play group. It could be considered onerous, but that may perhaps be instilling more malice than is intended by the action.

I do not ever think I have seen anyone ask to see what is in the discard pile unless they had some way to affect that area. Likewise with resources.

People just throw crap into their resources and nobody ever seems to care.

But my logic is:

Everything in the graveyard is public information.

Everything going into the graveyard is public information.

So... everything going out of the graveyard should be public information.

Also, not knowing what is being taken out of the graveyard... How do you know only two cards are taken?

I mean, I read it and assumed that it was an automatic gesture. But apparently it is much more gray than I thought.

I think you are correct - because the discard pile is public, any changes to the discard pile must correspondingly be public.

That's what I'm thinking.

Also, I don't know if there are any cards with "Forced Response: When this card is put into your graveyard from anywhere..." but if those types of cards exist... Then it has to definitely be public information. Right?

Again, i don't know if those exist... but yea... AHEM.

The FAQ 1.5 tells us clearly that

Resources and Discard Pile: These zones of play re considered to be public information and can be viewed freely by either payer during the course of the game.

If it's public information and you COULD note the full contents both before and after, then that is equivalent to just showing the cards and I would play it as such. Actually forcing someone to do all that work and slowing down the game for no gain is just being a jerk IMHO.

dboeren said:

I've had quite a few games in which my opponent asked me to show him cards I had resourced or discarded.

If you're playing best of three, after the first game your opponent will have an idea what to expect and would be foolish not be on the lookout for certain cards, like, Twilight Gate.

It's also prudent to look at both discard piles before playing 'Open the Limbo Gate'.

You may not manipulate any cards that are public in a fashion that obscures, obfuscates, or in any way impedes your opponent from having access to that knowledge.

The cards are in the discard pile and it is only after they are moved from your discard pile to your hand do they cease to be public knowledge. So even the pulling them from your discard pile your opponent could ask to see them.

The Speak to the Dead does not need to say reveal the chosen cards, since they are already public knowledge according to the rules. It needs to say something to the effect of secretly "choose and add" in order to change the rules.