Zappiel said:

Thank you, sir. I'm on Day 4 of reading threads on these forums, trying to fill in some holes and my own misunderstandings. I'm learning much.

Until next, for the Emperor.

oh, in that case, keep an eye on AK-73 too: he seems quite knowledgeable about the system and its foibles, and is generally quite helpful. For a german. (ouch! snap! where'd that come from?)

Charmander said:

This!

If you are running Final Sanction that is to assume that your space marines are just starting out? If that is the case then maybe killing them off isn't exactly the right answer.

Rippers (Mark of the Xenos, pg. 48), Horde Mag 30-40. PCs unknowingly walk into the midst of a Ripper Burrow, their weight breaks through the surface layers (falling 2m at most, taking d10+2 Damage [minimal inconvenience] ) and then they are swarmed (possibly surprised) by ravenous Rippers.

A sprawling Hive is situated along the ridge of a mountainous peak, its outer levels spilling down the mountain slopes. A large, natural basin is filled with waters pumped (by wondrous constructions of the Machine Cult) from an immense underground lake. The water is heated by geothermal springs, and is home to sulfurous microbes that are inimical to Tyranid bio-forms. A few Ripper carcasses have washed up along the canals of the Hive, and the Kill-Team is sent into the depths to ascertain the extent of the Tyranid infestation.

Trekking along the shores of the underground lake, the Kill-Team notices the ground is brittle, its surface giving way underneath their weighty steps (giving them a +10 to their [upcoming] Awareness Tests). Several of the Kill-Team suddenly fall through into a warren of Ripper burrows (taking d10+2 Damage, ignoring armour), and the Team rolls for Surprise. They are suddenly and savagely set upon by a swarm (Horde Mag 40) of Rippers. They must then make a Cohesion Test against Fear (1). The Rippers get 4 attacks on each nearby Marine, but Rampage means they could hit each Marine up to 3 more times. Being Relentless, the Rippers will shrug off most Damage, weapons with the Flame Quality being better suited to eliminate the threat. Being Overwhelming, the Ripper Horde does an extra d10 Damage while at Mag 20 or higher. Being a Horde, Ripper attacks become Tearing.

4-7 attacks, doing up to 38 points Damage (not including Pen 3) /attack. They're Fearless, so they won't break as their Mag diminishes. You can reduce the Mag by 5, and also have a dozen individual Rippers that are trying to Grapple one or two Marines (this is what I did), effectively eliminating their reprisals for a Round or three.

When the Kill-Team is well and truly surrounded by gnashing, thrashing ankle biters, the remainder of the burrows collapse (more Falling Damage) and deposit them within a maze of twisting tunnels populated by more Rippers (Mag 30-40), 3-4 Raveners, and a Trygon Prime.

Hudson (from 'Alien'): "Get some! Yeah! Oh, you want some, too?"

Grimrace said:

No need to appologize for 'threadomancy' here- on the WH40KRP Forums , we pride ourselves on dredging up old topics whenever possible!

I was fired upon by a Chaos Titan, if there are such things. I decided not to burn a Fate Point. I died from that. I don't think any damage or to-hit rolls were involved, but if you accept the premise the rest is understandable.

If you can do the same to your players (whilst not having it seem like an arbitrary and generally craptastic move) you'll be headed in the right direction.

But seriously, why do you want to kill the PC's? Do you not have an important story for them to be the main characters of? Or perhaps neither you nor the players find a problem with having a revolving door on the main cast? Ah, that's my bitterness coming out. Sorry. Deathwatch is well-suited to a bughunt type of game, if that's your thing. Round a corner in the cave and three Carnifexes pop out? That might do the trick.

You cannot opt to NOT Burn a Fate Point upon 'dying'.

Is that sarcasm? I haven't seen anything in the book that says you must burn a fate point to survive, as in you are required to burn this point or you can't play the game at all. It only says that in order to live you burn the point, not that your options are limited to one choice.

Indeed you can not burn a fate point and let character die.

Fate point may avoid death but are in no way an obligation.

Oh, seriously? Wow, thought it was automatic. Huh.

Captain Ventris said:

Don't blame me. Your wording was odd and text isn't very good at conveying sarcasm.

So aaaaaaanyway, like I was saying, I totally didn't spend that Fate Point. And then the Chaos Titan (which turns out to have existed after all) blew me to scraps. It makes for a good story in a hey-isn't-that-unusual/dumb way, but was tremendously disempowering at the time.

Baron Throatpunch said:

Yes, there are absolutely Chaos Titans. Though if your GM is throwing Chaos Titans at you and killing you outright without to hit or damage rolls, and it wasn't your character making a massive mistake, well, sorry your campaign wasn't more fun.

It's been my experience so far that you can have a compelling story to tell your players in DW- the hardest part is for non-40k-junkies to get into the Space Marine 'personality' and not play them as either caricatures or stereotypes. But even a old action movie with cliche characters can have an interseting plot.

A Mag 30 Horde of Tau XV-88 Broadsides. Three shots per round, starting from a range of 1km (and only getting shorter if the Kill-Team advance on them), doing 5d10+30, pen 15, with 2 or more DoS on each successful attack scoring an additional hit. Give them the Focused Fire Trained Horde Trait (+30 BS) for good measure. Should do it.

WHY ARE THERE HORDES OF ELITE ENEMIES IN THIS PLACE? SERIOUSLY? WHY? IT'S NOT LIKE THE RULES SAY 'HEY, MAKE A HORDE OF MOTHERF***ING CSMs' IS IT?

Sorry, just always pisses me off when people do that.

AlphariusOmegon7 said:

I concur - the point of Horde mechanics is to represent the masses of enemy formations - Elites are by their very designation smaller units of highly skilled or uniquely able enemies. Think of it this way: in tabletop 40k you have your HQ choices which in Deathwatch are your Master level enemies. You have your troops which are your mundane Horde level enemies. finally your have your Elites, Fast Attack and Heavy support which are all rolled into the Elite category in Deathwatch.

If you feel the need for Hordes of Elite enemies, you have given far too much power to your players or would be better served with a plot-driven brick wall to throw your players into, rather than a completely gay mechanical one.

Alekzanter said:

You might as well us a Horde of Hive Tyrants with a Magnitude of over 9000 while you're at it.

-K

You can just throw genestealers at them. My KT almost died last session when I chucked about six different genestealer encounters at them. Close quarters + high initiative + Razor Sharp makes marines sad. Certainly our Space Wolf lost his arms…again.

Alternatively, psykers. A vanilla psyker, given either balanced Black Crusade powers or (if you really want them to die) Deathwatch Smite. Tech-Marine had never been hit or really hurt before due to ranged/sneaky. Attacked psyker - psyker with psy rating 3 cast pushed smite.

He burnt fate.

AlphariusOmegon7 said:

+1. I ran a mission on a Space Hulk where the Killteam drew a continuous swarm of genestealers (only a few at a time, but with unlimited total numbers). Their mission was to get an estimate of the genestealers' numbers in order to plan their exterminaton- with specific instructions to make their way to the extraction point if the 'nids were too numerous- which of course they were. The party's Blood Angel Assault Marine decided to go into Blood Frenzy and fight the genestealers hand-to-hand early on; only after he intitated this 'plan' did he realize that, while Frenzied, he cannot willingly retreat until all enemies are dead- and this was an unending swarm… I decided to be generous and have a successful Command test by the party's leader allow the BA to take a Willpower test to end Frenzy, but the dice went against him. Repeatedly. He ended up Burning Fate…

A list of deaths and extremely painful Fate Point Burns:

* Blood Angels Librarian dies holding off a Necron Lord as the rest of the Kill-Team redeploys from a tomb that is about to explode. Kill-Team burned Fate Points because they didn't get the idea fast enough.

* During the same mission, our Blood Angels Tech Marine loses an eye and burns a Fate Point to a Gauss Blaster.

* Imperial Fist Librarian dies after getting a dose of Dark Eldar Vitae Rebellion to the face from an Archon.

* Blood Angels Tech Marine loses his other eye and burns another Fate Point to a Slaugth Intendent wielding a Necrotic Lance.

* Ultramarines Tac Marine, already very hurt, cripples a Necron Lord. Necron Lord locks down his armor using a Night Rod a moment before teleport extraction (due to another detonating alien base - I promise not all of my ideas involve last minute withdrawals from alien installations.) Aforementioned one-eyed Blood Angel, as he teleports away, fires at the Night Rod and destroys it. The resulting explosion kills the Ultramarine Tac Marine and his lifeless body teleports away.

None of these deaths are cheap. In every case, my players see them coming and meet them head on, like an Astartes should. Death in a game is important. Your players need to feel that their actions have consequences.