My gaming group loves Deathwatch and Rogue Trader but for a change we are looking at Fantasy. I just have a few questions.
If I have a gaming group with more than 4 players what's the best way to make sure more players have all the components? My understanding is also that I don't need the Core Set and I can get the Guide books. Can I begin running a campaign by simply starting with the GM Guide, Player's guide and Creature Guide?
New GM with questions
Well the guides are sufficient to play the game, but they do not come with any components at all.
Strictly speaking I have found that the core set doesn't actually have even enough components to go around for 3 players let alone 4. The issue is that aside from the base action cards for which you have three copies there is only one copy of all the other cards, so if two players want to take the same talent or action card your already have to share components. Since you randomly select classes you may end up with three melee characters for example who all want to take Improved Parry or some combat tactic. So far I have found that even in a three player game there is never enough components for everyone to have their own set, you always have to share.
The good news is that there are some great only tools to make your own components and I personally didn't waste much time replicating the entire core set and making 4 copies of everything using stock cards.
Once you start getting the vaults though this becomes less and less important as it becomes less and less likely that two players would take the same action cards or talents etc..
As for which way to go, components with the core set or the guides, perosnally I think without the components this game becomes a book keeping nightmare. Its very obviously developed from the ground with components in mind for tracking stuff so if you don't have those components you will find that you have to make shift some (poker ships etc..) because there is a lot more to track in this game than your typical RPG per player.
Unless you have a disposable income the Core Set is the best and cheapest way to get into the game and while it doesn't actually give you everything you need to run a 3 player game as it claims, with a bit of creativity the core set gives you enough information to make your own stuff and its not that hard to get yourself to the point that you can accomidate 4 or 5 players. Thought picking up the guides is still a good idea, I find that players who have read the guide have a much deeper understanding of the game and that helps a lot. As a GM I can say that the GM guide is just awsome in terms of preping you for the game and picking up the monsters guide and vault is practically automatic if your a GM planning to create your own story's. The core set has some very warhammer iconic creatures and stuff in it but you outgrow it quickly.
You've got some good advice above.
The only hard and fast "choke point" is getting each player the full basic action set. (3 of @ in core set, a Players Box adds 1 more). However, FFG offers this on the support page:
So print that off as a "placemat" for a player and there you go.
On not having duplicate action cards, groups vary on this point. Mine is among those where we say that beyond basic, actions are unique among PC's as part of the PC's being unique. Only one Troll Feller Strike and one Trick Shot per group.
If that's a concern, once again:
(there's also a high res on on support page)
Not as pretty but you can fill in text and not have to have the card.
My biggest concern is that I think Warhammer really shines in smaller groups where there is screen time for everyone and in social and invetigative play where that is needed and larger groups risk someone getting bored.
Buy a core set and a Players guide. You'll have all the careers and all the abilities. My players have gone so far as to just use the pages from the players guide rather than having cards on the table at all.
You do not need "cards" for the basic actions. Just use a copy of the cards from the players guide, make your own list of effects, or use one from the excellent lists of stuff people have produced for this game.
Draw talent slots on the side of your character sheets. This eliminates the need for having the career sheet on the table (and prone to getting ruined by the first spill of pop to occur on the table).
Our group is becoming more and more card-free as we go along (although we have one hold-out who likes counting chits and stuff), but that's the beauty of the game. It's DESIGNED to be able to be played with or without the counters and cards. It's pretty easy to mark abilities with a pencil.
jh
I've played with the cards and components so far, and I think the carnival game aspect of it all is gimmicky fun. At the same time, it's really not necessary at all. More and more, I'm beginning to see the value in going card-less and widget-less. The tabletop real estate alone becomes an issue. I mean, if I have to make a choice between space for the nachos and space for action cards . . . the nachos are always going to win out.
Why do people need to have all of the cards spread out on the table? Just like folks refer to their character sheet now for abilities, they can refer to their action cards.
We've created a small reference for all the basic actions, and the only cards that are laid out on the table are those refreshing.
Since WFRP doesn't use a map, I find it takes up just as much space (or less) than any other RPG I usually play (Dark Heresy, Rogue Trader, etc) Even back when I played D&D a large amount of space was used, mainly for the grid map for miniature positioning. Compared to some of those game, WFRP takes up not nearly as much. Especially, as HedgeWizard said, if players don't spread all their cards out and keep them more like a "deck" to look through when needed. Even when they do spread out, it's not really bad.
You can deffinately start straight away in a "chitless" / "old school" style with just those three tomes. I find that the significant lack of book keeping brought to the table by the "standard" version is much more appealing to me (a GM of many years) and the group of players I run for who are all very new to RPG's. I have yet to purchase the Guides because I have all of the info via the Core set and the Supplements.
Thank you for all the feedback. This has been very helpful. I am going to continue playing Deathwatch with my players because some of them are newer to tabletop RPGs but eventually I want to move them into different settings and game systems so all this advice has been great.