1) When a player in a multi-player game is defeated, everything is dumped in his discard pile. Is that discard pile still available for other players to aim card effects at (like fishing an ally out of it)?

2) If yes, can you use an event to resurrect one of that player's heroes?

3) If so, is he back in the game?

4) Can you similarly have him reshuffle his discard pile into a new draw pile?

This all would have been clearer had the player been out of the game and had all his cards "removed from the game" (unless they were under the control of another player).

Lee

hudarklord said:

Hmm. I had never really thought about this before, but considering that the rules say "When a player is eliminated, his hand, all of the cards he controls, and his deck are placed in their owners' discard piles" instead of "they are all removed from the game," I would have to say:

1) Yes

2) Yes... Fortune or Fate says return to play under "owner's control," and nothing about a "controller." I think that a player eliminated from the game couldn't "control" anything, but they can still "own" cards.

3) Yes

4) Yes, via Will of the West

Edit: I can't think of the thread offhand, but there were some really interesting, similar posts about a player in scenario 3 having all of their heroes minus the prisoner killed... what happens to engaged creatures when a player is eliminated, etc.

DISCLAIMER: All of this is based off of common sense, as obviously there is not an official ruling.

I think it would depend on why the player was removed from the game. If it was because all of his heroes died, then I would say that this is all legit. If it was because he reached 50 threat, then I think as soon as you brought one of his heroes back, he would immediately be eliminated again.

Sorry for the double post, I don't know how to edit these things. After re-reading the section on player elimination, I would say that none of this would be legal. I think the cited clause about "cards being returned to their owner's discard piles" is there to deal with attachments and things from other players placed on cards controlled by the eliminated player. When it says a player is eliminated, it seems pretty clear that their cards are no longer part of the game.

I'm not sure I agree - all it states is that all cards are returned to owner's discard piles and engaged enemies return to staging. Where does it impy that player (and/or his cards) cannot return to the game if a suitable card effect would allow it?

If someone resurrected a hero then that player would be back in the game, albeit without a hand of cards until he got to draw a card in the refresh stage, or was able to draw them through some other method.

If the threat is 50 though, the player would immediately be eliminated again though as you correctly stated.

Just because a player is eliminated doesn't mean that his discard pile is removed from the game, so it might still be possible to use his discarded allies. Still, in this context I don't know what "elimination" entails, and whether it is a permanent condition, or just a condition that is indefinite until reversed.

Another rule to consider. Under scoring, an eliminated player's threat is considered to be 50. Although it seems that this is for scoring purposes only. Otherwise you'd also need to reduce their threat level too.

Lee

I would argue that you can't bring back dead heroes from the discard piles of eliminated players.

My arguments are as follows:

1) The rules for player elimination say:

The remaining players continue to play the game.

and

Note that after a player is eliminated, one less card is
revealed from the encounter deck during the staging
step of the quest phase, as there is now one less player
involved in the game.

Both statements indicate that an eliminated player is no longer a player.

2) Fortune or Fate says:

Action: Choose a hero in any player's discard pile. Put that card into play, under its owner's control.

If an eliminated player is no longer a player, Fortune or Fate can not allow you to choose a hero from his discard pile.

Nico Deluxe said:

Good points!

I think Nico presented a logical approach that would appear to nail it. I posed the question before about only having a captured hero left, but having all your heroes dead is a bit different.

I'd say if your only hero left is the prisoner, you stay in the game. Keep drawing cards, managing your threat, etc... and wait to be delivered.