I honestly believe I've spent more time looking for the answer to this question than any question I've ever needed answered on the intertubes, and that's saying something! The QoD insert promises you can create each sample deck with only one copy of the Core Set, however the "Host of the True Queen" deck asks for 2x Forever Burning. Did I lose a card, did FFG lie on paper, or is that "2" supposed to be a "1"?

(I know many of you play competitively and treat AGoT like a CCG, so my carefully hewing to the exact specifications of a sample deck may strike you as odd. But, my intent was to treat the LCG format casually, building a collection of balanced decks for friends to choose from whenever we sat down to play. Being too inexperienced with the game to trust myself with this task, I figured sticking to the tested samples provided was the best bet.)

Given FFG's (frankly baffling) failure to do this, has anyone tried to build balanced (casual, not competitive) decks, one for each House, using only the cards provided by a single copy of the core set and a copy of each House's expansion? You know, remove the quotes from around "expansion" by not requiring you to hack apart the majority of the core game to "expand" it with a single new deck? (Me? Bitter? Not at all! Just print a triplet of Valar Morghulis BEFORE demanding one in every sample plot deck, and I'll pretend it's not a CCG right along with you.)

Yes, there is only one copy of forever burning in the core set.

Understand where you're coming from re: Valar.

The obvious substitute plot is Wildfire Assault, which you can drop into a plot deck to acheive a fairly similar result with (also, if you want them, you can pick up old CCG copies of Wildfire for cents these days, there's one in every 'AGOT Draft Pack', which usually sell for very little on E-bay. Alternatively, old CCG players may well sell/gift you a couple of copies for next to nothing, they probably have tens of the things).

Alternatively, if you really want to run Valar in every deck but don't want to buy multiple Core Sets, there's always the possibility of running proxies. Frowned on as a process by some, but in your situation it seems like a pretty fair option.

I understand where you're coming from. I originally wanted to play AGoT casually (before I got sucked in, that is). With one core set, it's still hard to build balanced decks for every house. There are several reasons for this.

The primary reason is the plots. Almost everyone recommends that you have Valar Morghulis in your plot deck, but in some circles, players (even on the competitive scene) have tried to go without it. I don't think that casual players need to adhere to this rule, especially if you only have 1x Valar Morghulis. In fact, many causal players find it off-putting that they have to kill all their characters by a card they play themselves. On the BGG boards, players who are more casual have tried to do a plot deck draft: i.e. throw 1x or 2x all your plots together, deal out 8 or 9 cards to each player, then draft.

Another reason is that all the houses don't have "expansions" yet. Lannister being the most obvious example. Lannister is also arguably the least cohesive in terms of subthemes across all chapter packs. And there are no prescriptive decklists for Lannister, Greyjoy, and Martell, like they include in the Stark, Baratheon, and Targaryen boxes. Greyjoy and Martell are also behind in terms of cardpool since they are not represented in the core set. It's easier to build decks for them however since reprints of their house expansion include 3x each card.

Lastly, there are a lot of great cards in the core set (and from box sets and chapter packs for that matter) that are obviously good, but that fit well into multiple houses. So which do you put it in? I found it hard to decide which house to put the good neutral events into because by putting it in one, and excluding it from another, I felt it had an impact on the overall balance, and sometimes on the excluded house's most obvious strategy, forcing me to take a different tack with that house. Usually it doesn't have that much of an impact, though, and I usually opted to leave out some of the best neutral cards rather than have to make a choice. I usually went for in-house events for casual decks which in my mind also enhanced the theme of each house.

So... um... let me get this straight:

Queen of Dragons is billed in no less than three places (site, box, insert) as containing decks that can be built with only one copy of the Core Set and QoD. This, however, is plainly untrue. Everyone except me on the entire Internet seems to see no problem with this. FFG is really, really lucky to have such devoted fans, and should probably stop screwing them over by pretending that CCGs are anything but, that despansions are expansions, or by, you know, lying.

I am so enraged. I just know that I am going to cave and buy multiple copies of the core set so that I can finally play GoT with "2-4 players" again (as the box says right on the **** lid), without having to fumble in the dark building inevitably unbalanced decks, and that just pisses me off even more. **** you FFG. You win, but know that I hate you for it.

Eunomiac said:

I'm not sure what you wanted to say, but, you know, this is still card game (not board game) and you are supposed to build your own deck. FFG did screwing in the past (forcing you to buy resin Kraken), but this is different. Constant mistakes by FFG (not lying) might be disappointing or even irritating, but enraging? Come on. Deck from Lords of Winter has Power of Blood x2 (so second core set is needed too). And Queen of Dragons decks are not even legal (54, 56 cards). But that does not mean that you can't expand/change them. These decks, as far as I know, were build by players, not by FFG, and they are supposed to be proposition for beginners, not some salvation for balance.

Eunomiac said:

I'm not exactly sure what you're talking about. I'm pretty sure that the large expansions are meant to be an initial "diving-in" point for new players looking to try out the deckbuilding aspects of the game. They aren't meant to "fix" balance issues in the core set. The core set is billed as an out-of-the-box gameplay experience for 2-4 players, and while many have found some issues with balance in 2 players with core set decks, it still works well, especially if you shift around the plots. This game is made to be customized: just consider rearranging the plot decks as your first deck-building venture.

I do play competitively, but I would love to play casually if I had the friends that wanted to play this. I got into this game precisely because it wasn't a CCG. I like that I can say upfront how much I need to spend to get a full playset, and not have to worry about core set resets. And that's only if you want one copy of every card to date. If you want pre-built decks, you're looking in the wrong place; deckbuilding is one of the fun things about this game. You can make some pretty cool theme decks that would be really fun to play, and FFG does a pretty good job of making cards that appeal to both kinds of players. Even on the competitive scene, it's pretty hard to find consensus on who the best house it, showing that everything has remained remarkably balanced. I recommend looking at cardgamedb.com in the deck list section or at agotcards.org for some example decklists.

FFG does make mistakes, and it's unfortunate that the inclusion of a single card in the decklist had such a strong effect on you. I would recommend changing one of those Forever Burning to Retreat or Seductive Promise. Either of those should work well.

I'm sure only having 1 forever burning, not 2 wont effect the deck much at all, slip in a crossroads or something :/
between a single core set and QotD no deck would make the best use of it... with only a single flame kissed.

Eunomiac said:

For your original question, I have no idea what's going on there. since I don't own QoD. The core set on its own is playable with multiple people; and the big box expansions assume you're using it for yourself. So yes, QoD isn't a problem if you just have one core set for yourself and aren't splitting cards with someone. Chapter packs seem like a better way to improve the decks as a whole for casual play. Also, use proxies.

darthbalmung said:

His problem is, the QotD box comes with a sample decklist which you are supposed to be able to throw together with 1 coreset together with QotD (Just as the other deluxe expansions do).

However apparently this list had 2x Forever burning on it... since the core set only has 1 copy of Forever burning , the list is now useless and unplayable since you cant build it with only 1 core set.

Companies make mistakes, things are missed in proofreading, this isn't the first and it won't be the last, just put in another card that seems appropriate and move on. It doesn't seem like your goal is really competitive play anyways so that really shouldn't be too large a problem. I'm sure the deck will be just as enjoyable to play with only 1x forever burning.

Wow.