I'm hoping it's a matter of a typical corporate "message of the day" sort of mentality - often a large organiztion (government or business) decides that "this is what we're pushing out into media/public today" and other things, even if ready don't get into the message mix. They have the Star Wars licence etc., and as has been noted we can't expect the "push" on Warhammer to always equal the First Year push. You can have lots of "line areas" creating product etc. but often external media etc. all goes through a central point where a view on "what to push when" prevails.

Ideally, if Jay got promoted that means there isn't any sort of "well that Warhammer thing was a debacle" view at senior level in FFG. He did exude enthusiasm for subject but lots of folks do - the important thing is that those coming in continue in that vein.

I think the game needs a continued push for FFG to generate maximum income from it - the creativity of its dice pool approach, the "details and variation but very light on rules look-up" virtues of the "it's on a card in front of you" approach pushed out, the rich depth of the warhammer world leveraged in other media etc.

So... Um... What did they say at the seminar?

Kharrak said:

Okay, thanks. I stand corrected. Still I am confused, because last year they released Shifting through Shadows before GenCon, and the success of the seminar videos was mostly because they featured future products. Why miss this opportunity this time?

But never mind. We will see.

FWIW, I went to the 40K RPG seminar, and they wouldn't say a peep about any future products or plans, either. Maybe new (or changed) FFG policy since last year?

Surprising, I am under the impression Black Crusade is the new baby on the block, for the 40k line

dbresson said:

Policies are like politics: I don't like them

Cynabar said:

And that's what they spent most of their time talking about. But only what was released already - the Black Crusade core book and GM's Toolkit. These had just been released earlier that day at Gen Con (I had already picked them up at the FFG booth). So I didn't count those as "future plans". They didn't talk about anything for the BC line past those two items, and didn't say anything either for the other three 40K lines. Just recapped what they had already done. It was for this reason I ended up skipping the WFRP seminar - thinking they'd do the same thing, which it sounds like they did. Had I known Jay Little wasn't doing it and they had a new guy in charge, I might've shown up just out of curiosity.

I attended the Gen-Con seminar for WFRP this last weekend, and it was very much like the 40k seminar of "we have lots of ideas" and "we can't comment at the moment." No Sifting through Shadows for us this year.

That being said they did give some examples from the Slaanesh supplement that is being released in December (that was the date shown in their storefront/booth in the event hall anyway). One of the new careers is the Fop. Absolutely hilarious and awesome. They are also going to provide a scale of how a character's social influence advances (or wanes) based on the careers they have taken with the "noble" "menial" "bureaucratic" traits, etc. They said nothing about addiction or drugs though, so while we can't necessarily count it out neither can we expect it. The supplement also covers a lot more actions for social characters and we will get something akin to social combat. Speaking of combat they are going to provide information on law & order within the empire as well and we get the Judicial Champion career along those lines (yahoo finally).

In terms of future supplements they didn't name anything but they showed us some art clips. They also made some obvious "gee a high rank content supplement WOULD be cool wouldn't it?" comments. Based on that and the picture of a character obviously in the process of dying while facing a greater daemon...I think we can dearly hope for a Rank 3+ supplement on the horizon.

We also saw a fantastic shot of an orc war boss riding a wyvern with an absolute mess of orcs behind him, and a really great gloomy doomy picture of some flesh crafted Skaven monstrosities. So we will either see some "bad guy" supplements focused on Orcs and Skaven (I hope I hope), or we are looking at a new creature expansion (which is probably fine too).

The few of us in the room spent a good deal of time chatting up Chris and Dan about the lack of support for demo/organized play options for new players to get into the game unless they just do what most of us here did (that is dive in with hopes it would be rewarding, or be lucky enough to find a local group). Given that they have limited time and personnel they can't really bite off something like an RPGA system of organized play at this point. They did tell us to email/contact/etc FFG about things we would like to see more of, and if enough of us want an organized play scenario (where we can point potential recruits to try before they buy) that perhaps the powers-that-be would ennact something. Another item that was brought up in the seminar given the low likely-hood of organized play was the addition of a sub-forum here on the boards for people to coordinate their own groupsat a "grass roots" level. A place to find people to play with, and for shop owners to reach out to find willing GM's to showcase the game in their stores, etc. Continue to contact FFG directly with things you want. As long as we aren't issuing a bunch of insulting manifestos their way they could actually give this squeaky little wheel some grease.

I spoke with Dan and Chris briefly after the seminar and something they do have a bit more control over is offers to help them play-test their mad inventions for the game. If you are into that kind of thing, contact them through FFG rather than spamming the forums.

Basically what I took away from the seminar is that if we want something changed we need to not cry and winge on the forums, and we need to pick up a phone or send some emails.

Thank you for your report and your comments! They are very helpful.

While not great news I'm happy we finally got some news from the seminar. Big thanks for Callidon for the summary!

Let's hope we are heading towards a grim and perilous future!

doc_cthulhu said:

Without a new Shifting through Shadows it is already grim!

It makes better corporate sense to release a full product forecast toward the end of the year, even though Gen-Con is the big exciting venue for fans to hear announcements. Since it isn't even Q4 of 2011 yet (September kicks that off here in the states) they probably won't release a 2012 catalogue until shortly before or after Lure of Power hits shelves. Even then they could still just dangle one new product in front of us as they come along.

FFG has adopted this model with all their warhammer rpgs for reasons that make sense to them. I was in the 40k seminar as well and they played the same game of "hey maybe" and "can't speculate."

I personally think that it is due to the limitation they have with the number of designers/developers that are available to produce each line of an RPG. If they lay out a year's worth of products in August and don't follow through on it they get stomped on for not meeting expectations. Just look how much "gawd where is <Expansion Name>!?!?!? It's March and we have heard nothing!!?!" they got this year. Now if they keep it all mysterious we are all just as interested in what is coming up but they are free to work on projects in a sequence that makes sense for the designer. They can switch product A in front of product B or decide to push product C out till 2013 and instead publish product D. We get new stuff, and they get to work their buns off on products that are relevant and interesting to them. And I think the end result will be better products from bought-in designers...even if it is less prodcuts per year.

Anyway...there are a lot of silly speculative things we can say about the lack of product line announcements, and they are all just as goofy and outlandish as the other. I just thought I'd put a non-pessimistic idea out there about the lack of product schedules.

You are being too reasonable!

Uh oh...here come the angry villagers! Doc did you rat me out as a mutant!!!!?

I must say that I am a bit disappointed at the lack of information on upcoming products. I thought that Shifting through the Shadows was a great way of getting players and GM's alike excited about the future of the game.

I am probably most disappointed however at the lack of news for anything elf related. ( I know that at last years Gencon something elf related was hinted at near the end of the slideshow and it could be that an elf book is on the way and we just don't know about it.)

You would think that after 25 years, 3 editions, and multiple publishers, one of them would have produced an elf book.

There has a been a Dwarf book in all three editions. ( As it should be, I would just like the other core race ( of this edition) to get some love.)

At the very least one of the publishers should have produced a Wood Elf book as they are actually in the Old World which all three editions have chosen to focus on.

Much like the 40k universe, the Warhammer universe is vast with lots of races, cultures, factions, and wonders. I hope that one day someone will expand beyond the Borders of the Old World in a Warhammer Roleplaying game.

I love this game and this universe and I can always home-brew whatever I want (and do often) using all the multiple sources of lore, (Army books, novels, other editions, etc) but I would really like to have some of the work done for me for a change, as I have have been home-brewing elves for Warhammer for 25 years.

I was at the seminar, and some good conversatin happned at the end, the reveal wasn't great. Nothing was revealed that wasn't really already known.

Callidon said:

Of course not. You were ratted out as a cultist. There's a difference.

Callidon said:

Thanks for taking the time to not only attend the seminar, but also to put so much of that detail here for the rest of us to read. While it's not the most heartening of information, it's good to know that something was presented.

I'm only recently into the game myself. After a few weeks of trying to get people to make characters, we just last week started An Eye for an Eye and have our second session tomorrow. Knowing there's still more coming out helps me get my players interested in learning more of the system.

Here's hoping they let us in on what's coming out next year soon enough.

Maybe they have good reasons for not announcing anything (and thank you for your arguments, Calidon). But I think there are better reasons for announcing something. I think announcements and stuff on the download-front (mini-adventures, list of default monster actions ) keeps people interested and excited. It wets the appetite of the hunter and gatherer.

And since there are a lot of white spots in the game, fluff-wise (Empire Gazeteer, Elves) and ruleswise (Higher rank actions, rituals), it would be better for players and GM alike to know what they can expect in the nearer future. Do I plan to direct my campaign to Bretonia, because I know they put a Bretonia supplement out or not. Do I create my own Wood Elfe careers and backgound or do I wait .. how long? I think siómetimes it's important for planning campaigns and playing the game to know what's ahead.

I admit this is not true in my case, since my camapign is not near any white spots, but at least it is a good argument. And I am just the sort of fan who wants to wet his appetite like an ogre. Pure stomach magic, I say!

I will say this. They did pop up a picture of a mounted orc (flying), and hinted that this was to come. That was the only kernal of information presented. They did say they were working on stuff, so it is not all dire. With flying mounts possibly happening, may we see the high elves as a supplement?

skippen said:

A flying orc and elves? Nah. It sounds more like a greenskins expansion or a new besitiary to me.

I'm looking forward to a supplement concerning higher ranks.

Cheers

Greenskins makes sense. I asked about a new beastiray, and they pretty much shot that down.

A couple of things.

Sadly, I missed the seminar when I was at Gen Con. I fully intended to attend, but got wrapped up in some meetings.

That said, I'd like to thank those that went for posting about what occurred at the seminar. I think it is wise that FFG is only commenting on products that are near completion as fans clamoring for things that have been announced but delayed can do more harm PR-wise than a more opaque production schedule. Add to this the fact that FFG has a lot on their plate these days and we can see why caution might be a way to go. FFG has to be flexible to respond to market forces and making promises in one direction if the market moves another can be damaging.

Personally, I am wondering if FFG would be willing to support independent gamers who decide to sponsor/host WFRP3 events at their local game stores. The game is innovative, but very different from a lot of other offerings. FFG weren't demo-ing the game at Gen Con at all and I wonder if it is we the fans who aren't doing enough promotion to guarantee the success of the line. The consumer base needs to grow if we want the line to continue.

Christian