Ok, I've gone through the french version of the Deathwatch core rulebook and there are parts really well translated and others, not so good... Anyway I don't think the french version is responsible for everything, for example : the game let's you dodge weapon fire but, in the movie Ultramarines can you see Astartes rock and rolling all time to dodge fire ? Just once when Severus and Verenor drop under that land speeder... Most of the time they don't move at all when firing so I think this rule has to be modified. How many times do you see marines reloading in that movie ? Not once !

I'm not going to talk about everything I noticed but the high jump rule is also nonsense when it let's you jump more than 5 meters high in the air with a run start. Notice also the big differences in the jumping rules between high and long jumps if you have a run start or not : without a run start a marine cannot jump high but he can jump almost as far as if he had run !

Anyway, I'm wondering how many of you use house rules because I think I'll have to remake a good part of the rules even though I admit they're a good base to work on. Some good ideas there too...

I use a good load of home-made rules to sort out all sorts of silliness in the original rules. Although my versions are geared more towards "realistic" approach instead of "cinematic-epic" approach and thus won't do much for you if you wish to make your game more like Ultramarines -movie...

One of the mayor reasons I always try to get the original English version of (board)games; bad rule translations. And of course, something that might sound epic in English often sounds moronic in other languages, even if that can be a source of entertainment on its own.

Thankfully the Dutch aren't as translate happy as the French or German, so we only have to watch out for translated family games and such.

Zero house rules here - not needed them.

Since I started running Deathwatch, I've implemented a change to Righteous Fury (it inflicts a 1d5 roll on the appropriate Critical chart, rather than adding to damage), and I've recently started working towards houseruling some of the more significant changes from the Black Crusade version of the system into my ongoing Deathwatch campaign (I'd have done it sooner, but my players aren't under NDA, so I can't discuss the books I've worked on with them).

I ******* hate this board software...

Saigneur said:

And the Marines didn't reload because it was a movie. Deathwatch isn't a movie.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

No rules issue, he just believes that dodging weapons fire is un-Spacemarine-like. They should just stand there and block it with their face like a real man.

I had the (mis)fortune to play in a few games when half the group bought DW books and a couple of things became so glaringly obvious you'd have to be a cretin to put up with for any length of time. So, all the bolt guns lost a dice and gained a bit more base-damage, I had to backhand a few people quite savagely until they learned how tearing and emperors fury worked. After that was established, we're good and now theres an addendum which is more or less the same as what I'd done I can devote my time to writing adventures and not endless ******* around with game mechanics. (I'll put up with a lot of things, but as a GM, you have to have consistency in rulings)

The second, slightly less obvious modification was most of the assorted baddies and bugs got a LOT more hit points and a little bit more toughness, sometimes armour. After watching various big baddies get "insta-gibbed" by heavy bolters or even just those not statisticaly impossible amounts of normal bolt gun damage, there isn't much hope for them... which is ok if you're Bob the Heretic hiding behind something large and tank shaped, but for Mr H Tyrant who's otherwise the size of a tank, you kind of have to take it on the nose and hope you'll kill the enemy quicker than they can kill you. Its a very fine line between TPK and a challenge though unless you're good at doing probability in your head.

I was unhappy and so was the majority of the players with the character backgrounds and carbon-copy results of making basic marines... so I wrote an entire scout career and alternate backgrounds for them, some open options for character history prior to becoming a space marine and so far the adventures have been fairly good for character building adventuring and squad cohesion. They buy their stat advances, some extra skills and a little more for the implants, starts at around 10k xp and works its way up to the 12,500 and after that they'll go through DW training. The other nice thing about starting like this is they're far more manageable running around in carapace knifing space elves, harassing heretics and murdering other poor unfortunates. They're also on parity with their existing long running DH characters, so if they want they can switch them in or mix things around. Though, having recently acquired proper armour there may be a wait until the DH characters reach ascension.

Quite a lot of work otherwise was comitting the combat rules to memory... because theres a lot of combat and you don't want to get bogged down buggering around with flicking through rule books.

i dont really use house rules but also i am only slowly introducing all the normal rules for example i dont actually use any of the solo or squad modes as these are a little complex and the marines dont need them, i might introduce them later as the players (and me ) get slicker with the rules

Dam this forum software

H.B.M.C. said:

Well, for instance, the rules don't say that a player character can ONLY dodge attacks he is aware of. So, basing himself on the rules, a player can argue he CAN try to dodge sniper fire even if common sense tells otherwise... Second, in this movie, all other games games, etc. Many times marines are seen side by side withstanding fire in battles, not rockin' and rollin' dodging like if they were dancing... So, I say the dodge rule should be more precisely defined.

I think some clips hold too little amunition too, especially those like the heavy bolter : have you seen the size of the backpack they need, and it contains only 60 rounds !?... In a single session, players can use so many clips of ammo that in the end you wonder : but how do they carry around so many clips/reloads ? Like this heavy bolter : with full ammo he can fire 6 times, then needs to reload... But he needs to be able to fire a lot more so how does he carry around like 10 other chains of ammo, when his huge backpack/clip can hold just one ? Does he needs someone to reload his backpack because it's on his back or can he do it alone. How ? Have you ever tried like picking your backpack pocket while wearing a full plate armor ?...

Actually I have started my campaign with Final Sanction, so with the basic rules while I'm studying the full game rules... And my problem is that, just from reading, I come up with many questions that remain unanswered... You want another one ? Ok : How does Deathwatch access codes look like ? How do you give them to an astropath so that she sends your message ? Is this process using machinery, connection with the marine armor or is it just verbal ? Etc. etc...

That's because Final Sanction uses simplified versions of the rules. The full rulebook does state that you need to be aware of the attack to be able to dodge it. The 60 round clips for the Heavy Bolter is actually without a backpack, which has a clipsize of 250.

As far as how exactly a Deatchwatch access code looks like: does it really matter? Just make up something silly like Delta Whisky Bravo 23 Alpha.

Edit: And as far as Marines standing side by side withinstanding fire, look up the Soak Fire defensive pattern.

Redemption NL said:

*shuffling through the french rulebook*

- You're right concerning the dodge rule... I guess I need to study more
- Actually the french rulebook say the backpack allows to fire 250 times. So, since the heavy bolter can only function on full auto fire spending 10 rounds each time, to me it means the backpack holds 2500 rounds. Thanks for that headsup
- As for that Deathwatch code, I was thinking of ruling it as a crypted vox transmission the armor would be doing... as I thought Deathwatch marines vox transmissions would be normally crypted by their armors so as to not be intercepted and heard by people that should not. But, I think the corebook also says an astropath needs to link with the one supposed to receive the message. So that means she needs to know who and where to locate that receiver too... And I'm still thinking about that detail but maybe I won't precise that as I don't think this introductory scenario will be part of my campaign but just for warmup and get a little more experience points : that Avalos world is not mentioned on the starmap and the forces there are so strong, I think the marines will die soon... Talking about that, how many times an apothecary can heal someone ? With sufficient time, can he bring a marine full back up or will he keep some lost wounds ? Can that apothecary heal himself ? Not the shots he received on his back I guess...

Anyway, thanks... I almost read the full corebook now but I think I need to read it over and over again... hard to remember everything and oh, I think I'll definitely houserule that all scores are rounded down because I hate when the rulebook say "this is rounded up" and "this is rounded down"...

Do realize an Astropath is a human being (a Psyker, but human nonetheless), so I'm not sure how successful she'd manage encrypted messages; it's not like you can plug into her usb port or something. Astropaths can either send a message to a specific individual, but then she indeed needs to know the person. Alternatively, she can send a broadcast message, but then it may reach unindented targets.

As for the apothecary questions, in Final Sanction there doesn't seem to be a limit on how much you can heal, but once again, this ruleset is simplified a lot. In the full ruleset, healing though the Medicae skill is split into 2 actions: First Aid and Extended Care. You can only use First Aid once per injury, but Extended Care can be used to heal a marine back to full, given enough time (which can take weeks).
In both rulesets an Apothecary can heal himself, but of course, keep common sense in mind; obviously he's not going to cure himself if both his arms are missing.

Redemption NL said:

Praise whatever you praise. but praise it for it!!!

9 out of 10 translations are horrible and embarass you just by reading them. AND the FFG stuff is so well written in general.

Ear-of-Terror said:

Heh, yeah, at least with boardgames and such it isn't that hard to get the product in its original language. Unlike various EA games which force you to play in your own language... What is supposed to be an epic booming voiced narrator in Dungeon Keeper suddenly sounds like a guy narrating sesame street. A 'daemonic imp' is not a 'donderstraaltje' for feth's sake! :|

And don't get me started on dubbing. I once watched part of a dubbed World War 2 movie in Germany; they even dubbed the nazies! >.>

Ear-of-Terror said:

I believe you but still, I rather have it in french because most players like to understand their character sheet...

On reloading:

Unless you're using weapon with very small ammo capability (Melta weapon, Rocket Launcher, etc) you'll find it very rare that player need to reload.

As a general rule, players do not miss often and tend to kill stuff fairly quickly. A battle that last more than 5 rounds in Deathwatch is freaking epic and a typical Bolter can fire for 8 round straight.