So I've been playing AGoT for about a year now, entirely joust, as I've onyl had one opponent until very recently. Off the back of the HBo series though, starting to get one or two extra people interested in the game, and we had our first 3-player game yesterday afternoon. Stark, Lannister and Baratheon (I got Lannister)

A few thoughts:

Melee is A LOT harder. I probably win 80%+ of the joust games we play, yesterday I got hammered, and rarely looked like getting any level of control. (possibly the amount I win normally had something to do with my wife targetting me even when the Baratheon player was on 14 power and I was on 3!)

Going second sucks. through a combination of low-initiative plot cards, and a spot of bad luck, I was 2nd out of 3 on 7 of the 8 rounds the game lasted. Last seems to be the best position to go - no need to worry about what may or may not be coming your way next. First I can see the advantage of too- is there any gain in ever being the middle one?

Inevitably, I think my next step needs to be tweaking the decks. Baratheon seemed the best, going first and using vigiliant to re-stand, although Core set Renly + accepted destiny, + vanguard knight as a kneelable influence was a pretty lethal combo as well. Stark did alright, got some nice Direwolf synergy, and Roose Bolton's non-kneeling for intrigue challenges helped. Lannister though seemed to be lacking in a lot of areas. Castellan of the Rock just served to annoy everyone else, and make me a target, and nothing else quite got going, what would people recommend for beefing up a Lannister Melee deck? or general thoughts for Melee (non house-specific)

Mighty Jim said:

A different house card

Kidding aside, I personally love Lannister Clansmen in melee. Very resilient with Timmett and Shagga, and they got some tricks and surprises with Clansmen jumping into challenges and raising claim. I just wish there were more Clansmen with Renown.

I have a Clansmen deck and they do perform well in melee, considering they can defend when kneeled if Shagga is around or survive unharmed when Timett is around. Plus they have events to help them out (Rise of thew Mountain Clans & Mountain Tactics).

Melee is indeed harder, especially with certain deck archetypes (hyperkneel for example is terrible imho), but I must say that it's especially true in a three-players game. Simply put, if the other players focus on attacking you there's hardly a chance for you to win, and if someone keeps attacking you even when the other player is close to victory (as in your example), well... not much you can do.

I do like the melee games, but people need to know and understand the difference between joust and melee. To win you don't just need to try and get 15 power for yourself, you also need to avoid others getting close to it, and as such you need to keep a certain balance, shifting your actions to contrast each player who's getting some edge over the others.

And lastly... yes, a character such as Castellan of the Rock will get you hated and hammered by the other players hehe...

Saturnine said:

That had been my suspicion.

I might try putting in a few more Clansmen and seeing how that goes- failing that though, I'll just get out the Martell deck - maybe that'll screw 'em over a bit.

Mighty Jim said:

That'll just make everyone hate you worse

And I think Lannister still plays a little better in melee than Martell (though your mileage may vary depending on the deck and your opponents)

As for adding "a few" Clansmen - I think if you're gonna play Clansman, you have to be pretty dedicated to it to make it work effectively. Sure, Timmett and Shagga are pretty good on their own, but they're not gonna make much of a difference by themselves.

Mighty Jim said:

And, of course, the wife sticking it to you while the Bara player rushes to the win doesn't help

God i love melee

alright so Lannister might seem limited but there is another option outside of Clansman (even though a clansman highclaim deck is very very good)

Its a bit of a gamble to see if you can keep him alive but i am a huge fan of Devan Lannister in melee. this way you only need to get to 9 or 10 power before you just sit back for a round and win dominance and buy your way to victory.

you need draw and gold to really make it work but i have 2 wins in 4 player melee games under my belt thanks to Coz Devan, it really is worth looking at. Use the tribeless vagabonds stealth to get some unoppossed, lurkers at harrnehal to grab some more unoppossed, maester creylon for easy power in melee and even Standing Joffrey to claim power whenever your opponents kneel. If you play gold heavy the final power grab shouldnt be a problem and it usualy catches people off guard

jack merridew said:

Consider me impressed. I've never tried to do anything with him myself, because I just imagined it too hard to pull off effectively. And if somebody else played him in one of my melee games, I'd keep a close eye on him, reserving some kill or control, and I'd be sure to point him out to the other players if he got dangerous. So yeah, well done.

Yeah, three player games have a tendency to suck. They quickly become just a 2 v 1 game that very rarely exhibits the shifting tides of play and loyalty that mark a good melee game. That's why I really hate that the official melee rules bump down to 3 player tables instead of up to 5.

Kennon said:

I hate 5-player melee. Too many players, too many cards, everything takes forever. As for 3-player games, there is that danger, but I've had plenty of fun and even 3-player games, too.

IMO 4 players > 5 > 3
In a 3 player game, titles play waaay too big a part, and you can easily end up having a really sh*tty turn or 2 thanks to titles.
4 players Ideal, theres nothing wrong with 5... it just takes longer and a bit more chaotic.

Definitely with melee, you have to bring everything that only effects a single opponent down a few notches. Focus more on your own plans, or things which effect all opponents.

Non-clansmen lanny I had found somewhat tricky to build. but basically i focused on draw, and income. with enough gold producers, a blockade turn can be a huge advantage. You can thrive during winter as well.
My lannister deck is built to look weak, but rush for the win during marshalling. I play Summer Tax(during winter, again focus on yourself, not an opponent), winter festival, orphan recruit, kill the wrong dwarf, formal petition, shadow politics (with creylen/lannisport). keep all these in hand until you can win. You won't get bothered unless you look like you can win. On that note, I am not a fan of Devan.

But yeah, the whole kneel thing, you can pretty much just disregard it in melee. The second last thing you want is to look like you are picking on someone, they will only be more inclined to pick on you back... The last thing you want would be looking like you can win.

Don't ever think you can "control" the whole table, cause 3>1.

The article Damon wrote about the coming set got me thinking about Lannister. He said that Lannister would be focusing more on controlling the players rather than the board... When I started looking at the game in that mind set my wins with Lannister started to increase. Using spot control to make someone a target for another player, using it to bribe or intimidate all the while backing up a more aggressive core set of characters to win me the game seems to work pretty well.