Hey everyone, I came across talk about these games (DH and Deathwatch) while I was searching the internet for information on Warhammer 40k Necrons 5th edition codex release date and the idea of the game interested me, since I've been playing Warhammer 40k for several years now and I've always wanted to find some way to be on a more personal level with the characters and there creation. This game seemed similar to what I was looking for, so I was hoping I could talk to some of you about your experience with the game and details about since I want to be sure I'll like the game with the required books being ridiculously expensive like all other games workshop products. If your interested in helping me out, my AIM is Darknessofdoom3 but you can message here too, it will be alot slower though.

EternallyFrozen said:

Well, that's a general request. What do you look for in a 40K roleplaying game?

Alex

normalty i would say buy the books and go from there. but then thats what you don`t want too do! then i`ll ask what is it you want too know any maybe we could tell you?

Alex: With the regular 40k tabletop game, the games were always so brief and impersonal. Sure, your controlling an alien army but don't really go beyond that and than you win the game after an hour or two, after which you would start all over again. There wasn't any persistence to the game, you just kinda had your army and that was it. I'm a hardcore completionist in some ways so I like games were I can slowly build up the power and deadliness of my personal character (I'd kinda compare that to Oblivion).

Readhead: Well, I'm a college student at the moment so I need to make sure this is an investment I'll willing to make before I spend a good $200 ish on the rulebooks and supplements, though by comparison that's alot cheaper than the other games workshop games. I guess my main concern is the amount of rules and accessibility of games. Are the rules extremely complex (because 400 pages is a big book)? Or is it something that after one game of actual play I'd be able to know what to do? Also about game accessibility: is it easy and quick to find and start games? Would it be like "oh, I feel like playing a game is afternoon *call up players* hey guys let's play a game this afternoon" or are games something you need to spend a solid amount of time preparing for?

EternallyFrozen said:

How much you spend really depends on a few things. You'll probably at least want the core book. The supplements so far have been nice, with a few flaws. But, your group really wouldn't need more than one copy of any of them, if that. The Emperor Protects is a linked series of 3 adventures, so it's fun but not necessary. Rites of Battle is great, and I'd say it's probably the most "necessary" of the expansions because of the vehicle rules and the new features like Deeds. Mark of the Xenos is great as a resource for a GM who doesn't want to design enemies from the ground up. However, you can still run or play in a game without any of these expansions.

The rules...are and are not complex. That 400 pages also contains a lot of stuff on history (information on the Imperium, Deathwatch, and the Jericho Reach - the setting of the DW game - take up over 70 pages alone), wargear, and even some enemies and a quick introductory adventure. The basic percentile system is actually fairly easy; what can trick you up is all of the little details from modifiers, Talents, etc. that can change the way things work. You'll likely have the basics of the game after the first session, but you will likely still be stumbling over new stuff a few sessions later. DW is a bit different than a lot of other RPGs because characters actually get to start with a lot of stuff just from their armor and implants. Games can be as easy or difficult as the GM wants to make them. DW is designed to be very combat-heavy, so it's very easy to put together a quick extermination mission and drop the party onto a planet to hunt down some xenos. Upping the roleplay aspect and introducing different characters for a different type of game is very doable but will obviously take a bit more work.

Are Dark Heresy and Deathwatch mixable in any sense of the word? Would I be able to use a character I made from Dark Heresy along in a Deathwatch mission?

Theoretically yes, but it wouldn't make much sense. Dark Heresy chars are more like investigators. Deathwatch chars are legendary heroes and by far more powerful. Also the theme of the game is completey different. DH is about horror and mystery, DW is just epic.

My advice: play the Deathwatch Intro adventure and see how you like it. You don't need the Core Rules for that, the basics are in the pdf.

www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/deathwatch/minisite/support/final-sanction-web-quality.pdf

EternallyFrozen said:

Deathwatch is the most complex of the 40K Roleplay games yet. If you're not role-playing experienced, my advice would be to go for Dark Heresy first. If you get Dark Heresy, learning Deathwatch is easy, like learning a new codex. The problem with DW is the amount of rules and special rules and stuff. It's all quite detailed, allowing for lots of personalization and customization and all. There is parts that can be left out for the first few sessions (like squad and solo mode abilities) though. So I'd say DH unless you don't like playing lowly acolytes and want to play on the power level of Space Marines (mind you, these are novel Space Marines - a single of them can take on 10 Orks and come out unscratched).

Persistance, building up your character - yeah you get all of that. Don't worry. If you don't mind the concept of a d100 and have people who'd want to play it with you (I recommend 1 GM and 3 to 5 players, more or less is possible but suboptimal), you can go for it.

Maybe you can tackle it this way:

Download the free demo Final Sanction from here:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=108&esem=4

If you get the rules in there, you have the basic understanding of this RPG. What you can expect from the full game is that they add a sh*t-ton of special rules and equipment with its special rules. That said: DH has less rules and special equipment. Maybe less flavour but also easier to handle. If you are person with blessed a good memory though, you'll be able to handle DW, it just requires a bit more from the GM.

As for preparation time: just like in college you get out of it what you put into it. Nobody expects the ring trilogy from you if you have little preparation time. However please note the difference to wargaming: different role-players have different ideas of fun wrt role-playing. Some just wanna smash xenos and gather items and xp. Others just want everynone to get into character and have good roleplaying moments. Others yet like solving mysteries and stuff. This has to be managed by the group (not just the GM). That said, if you have little time, buy a pregen mission from FFG, read it through over the week and play away.

Sadly enough there isn't enough player-created content yet for DW. Say, FFG, will there be a mission contest this year? (Not that I have anything at hand myself.)

Alex

Not really, the genres are not really the same.

Dok Martin said:

Isn't the Grey Knights supplement part of Dark Heresy though?

EternallyFrozen said:

Yes, though Grey Knights aren't really compatible with normal DH groups either - plus they also have rules for using them with the Deathwatch rules.

EternallyFrozen said:

If they are supposed to match up you need the Ascension expansion for Dark Heresy, and even then it can sometimes be hard. However, for some concepts you need to mix the systems. If you want for example build a Marine of the Exorcists chapter you need the Radical's Handbook from Dark Heresy.

I'm not sure if you overlooked, or just aren't interested in, the third product in the line, which is Rogue Trader.

First of all, the similarities between the products:

All three use a broadly similar system, with the same skills, basic mechanics (1d100 tests against attributes or skills with circumstancial modifiers, with talents that modify results or add additional action options), and character development (spend xp to buy skills, talents and attribute points, new tables at xp treshholds).

All three have a detailed combat system, with the same ground rules. The basics of it aren't complicated, but there can be a few things to track in many situations. Combat tends to be short and brutal, as you would expect from a society that spend ages in warfare.

All three can be played just fine with just the Core Book, which is a Player Handbook and DM Guide together. All three have additional books that add character options, as well as more background information and more premade npcs and enemies.

Short summaries:
Dark Heresy is about a team of selected individuals who investigate threats to the Imperium. It's the most 'human' of the three games, and it starts off at very low power levels. Play Dark Heresy if you like the idea of shoot-outs in bars and alleys, of searching for the cause of mysterious disappearances, changes in crimerates, or sightings of daemons. Dark Heresy has a supplement called 'Ascension' which adds an 'epic' powertier to the game. Become an Inquisitor, deal with Planetary governments, Greater Daemons and rebellions.

Rogue Trader is a game of political intrigue, exploration of the unknown, and encountering grave threats. Intrinsic to the game is owning your own gigantic spaceship, being responsible for the many lives aboard it, and amassing wealth for your Trading House by going where others don't dare. It features Space Combat and Ground Combat, and storylines revolve around saving planets from xenos and political intrigue, finding lost artefacts on long dead worlds, being chased by pirates, and the price you may pay for getting greedy.

Deathwatch is about being a Space Marine. It is all about gritty combat, against the strongest foes imaginable. It's about being half a dozen guys against a horde of xenos. It has additional rules for heroic combat abilities (Via Squad Mode and Solo Mode abilities). A Space Marine isn't usually called on for politics or negotiations, he exists for eradicating the foes of the Imperium. Inquisitors and Deathwatch Captains (Run by the GM) set the mission targets, and the players try to find the best way to do them. Space Marines aren't automatons though, and the book does a good job of explaining motivations, which Chapter has quarrels with whom, and set an atmosphere for this elite force.

My advice would be: Read the free adventures for all three, and perhaps play through them with a group. If you like one, buy the Core Book of that setting. It should keep you busy for a while, and 400 pages is enough information to keep you going.

If you truely want to combine, Dark Heresy+Ascension combines with Rogue Trader and Deathwatch, and Rogue Trader combines with the first 5 ranks of Deathwatch with little adjustment. Humans will tend to be a lot more versatile out fo combat, but potentially more squishy in combat though.

plz do not go into this thinking the rpg will be the same as the TT game it isn`t.

demo missions are a good way too get the feel of the games and can set you of right

find out what you (and your groep) likes too play best and then buy the core book somewhere of that system its not that hard too learn

rules change somewhat between systems sometime for the better sometime not. and remember try too have fun while playing otherwise your doing it wrong