I've seen this topic pop up on occasion, and I wanted to get some feedback on a possible house rule. One of my biggest issues with this game (mechanically speaking) is the imbalance that exists between Sanity and Stamina. On paper, they seem well balanced. You lose sanity first, but only once, while stamina is secondary but can be hit multiple times.

In practice, though, you soon see that Sanity is much more precious than Stamina is, for multiple reasons (it's also obvious if you compare Vincent and Caroline - the latter is one of the best characters and the former is one of the worst):

1. It's used for spellcasting, so it functions as an independent resource in addition to being a combat statistic (a resource that is drained very quickly no less)

2. Unlike combat checks, there are few things that can affect a horror roll, meaning that it's harder to "shore" up a weakness and consequently horror checks on average are harder to pass than combat checks are, particularly when you have a choice of when and what you are fighting, which is usually the case .

3. It is often in more danger of being lost than Stamina, precisely because it only gets hit once - most people won't enter combat with a monster they do not have a high chance of killing because they will die if they can't, while it's easy to justify shrugging off sanity damage to fight a monster you have a good chance of out-combating.

Due to the combination of the above, Sanity comes out far ahead in the valuable commodity chart, and I've been thinking of house-rules that would both make sense and help bring better balance (and give those high stamina investigators a boon over the high sanity investigators, who tend to outstrip them in general performance).

What do you think about letting investigators sacrifice stamina for movement points on a 1 for 1 basis? To me it makes perfect sense (representing furious flight toward your destination), and it seems pretty balanced - it would only be worth doing from time to time in specific circumstances, and only high stamina characters would be able to do it often, and they tend to be weaker anyway. In particular, it would give a pretty terrific boost to Vincent to make him playable. I would probably allow a maximum of 2 stamina for 2 extra movement.

Forgot to mention - In particular, it would help out Vincent tremendously, who is otherwise quite terrible.

Here's why I find sanity balance fixes distasteful. First of all, this is a Lovecraftian game, characters *should* be going insane :') it's the proper spirit of things. Second of all, I don't want everything to be homogenized. I like characters who I have to struggle with to make them perform adequately. I don't want everyone to have similar power levels. Some of my favorite characters (to play) are weak ones.

Avi_dreader said:

Okay, but this isn't a sanity fix, it's a stamina fix, and something totally different /= homogeneous, it's not like if I implement this suddenly all investigators will play the same way and have the exact same "power level", if anything it'll make them even more distinctive, and there's really no reason why some investigators should be so much worse than others. Did you even read my idea?

Einlanzer80 said:

First, I rather like your comprehensive analysis of San vs Stam, although I'm not certain I completely agree with 2. If you're just going with odds of acquiring a Will or Horror-affecting item vs a Fight or Combat-affecting one, then yes, your odds of getting the latter is bigger, but with so many expansions, it's not as simple as before to even get an effective weapon half the time. And there is a balance between good Will and good Fight Investigators, so I think that 2 has a certain amount of perception as well as cold hard fact.

Now, as far as your house rule: are you aware that this is essentially Cthugha's slumber ability? His blazing heat causes Investigators to lose 1 Stamina for every movement point they spend greater than 3. But what you're doing is allowing Stamina to be spent (not lost) at any time, meaning an Investigator could maximize his low-ish Sneak, and then still be able to "get away" (on even Speed 0) from the horrible beast he just evaded (as opposed to the usual painful effect of Evading but forced to remain with the monster, i.e. hiding in a closet, trying not to breathe too loudly).

It's not that it isn't a good idea (even a great one for Vincent), but I honestly don't think you're being fair to the monsters.

jgt7771 said:

I didn't recall that about Cthuga - it's possible I've never fought him before- but it's easy to make an exception in his case or rewrite the rule slightly.

As for your point about sneak - that isn't really something I thought of, so well taken, but that's kind of the intent - you are, after all, sacrificing stamina to do so. It certainly is giving the investigators a boon that they didn't have previously (particularly arguably under-powered high stamina investigators) but I don't necessarily think it's an egregious or game-breaking boon, though I admit it definitely requires playtesting before full application. I figure it would be at least partically kept in check by both your stamina and focus.

Moreover, I think it's a worthy sacrifice to give stamina an extra "cost" effect that it is sorely lacking, and above all I think it's logically and thematically appropriate. Also, sneak is a bit underpowered and underutilized because of how important speed is, so this has potential to help with that also.

Carolyn vs Vincent isn't just about their abilities. Carolyn has a slightly better skills and (IMHO) has better starting equipment. She also doesn't look like she's going to faint when there's a stiff breeze.

Einlanzer80 said:

::cough cough:: ::mumble mumble:: I might have skimmed a little in the last paragraph ("might"). It's not entirely to my taste, but it's not bad. I'd probably make the cap a maximum of one, and make it a two stamina loss (loss, not cost, so it could theoretically be prevented) for one movement house rule. That way there'd be a bit of a boost, but it wouldn't be significantly game distorting. I think at least you should cap the use to one movement. Giving investigators two extra movement can be problematic...

I wouldn't use it personally, because I have a custom-designed investigator who employs that exact ability, but it seems viable.

The question now is: will the benefit of added movement points, or even having the option of using stamina for movement points, outweigh the penalty of sanity loss to such an extent that the game becomes significantly easier overall?

It's worth mentionining, also, that stamina is lost as a penalty to failing evade checks. Sanity may be used as a buffer to killing certain monsters, but if you're not good at killing, stamina is more important.

Tibs said:

I think it'll have to be playtested - but even if it ends up making the game slightly easier I'm okay with that as long as it isn't game-breaking, which I have a hard time imagining it will be. Most of the people I play with like to win more often than not anyway, even if it isn't lovecraftian, and it will just be added incentive to use heralds and such. To be honest, the relative power balance of sanity and stamina bugs me less than the fact that sanity has a very interesting optional use as a resource while stamina does not.

In short, I'm pretty sure it'll be a good fit for our games, even if it isn't for everyone. Thanks for the feedback.

If the point is to buff up Vincent, I'm sure there are ways to do it without changing the rules of the game. You could let him heal 2 Stamina per turn instead of one. Or you could give him 6 Sanity and 4 Stamina instead of the current 5/5. I've heard of some people giving Vincent the spell Cloud Memory as a fixed starting item, but I think that's going too far. I think Mageith lets Vincent heal anyone who is in the same town.

If you're interested, here's my "Vincent fix." It basically turns him into a mobile hospital.

Upkeep Phase: Investigators in Dr. Lee's location may either regain 1 Stamina for free, or may pay $2 to restore their Stamina to its maximum value.

Any Phase: While Dr. Lee is in Arkham, investigators in Arkham who are knocked unconscious may choose to move to Vincent's location instead of St. Mary's Hospital.

I also gave him 6 Sanity and 4 Stamina. He really benefits from the extra Sanity, and of course he can heal Stamina.

I use the '2' vice '1' point of Stamina Heal if you're in the same location, augmented by the Personal Story to include an entire neighborhood.