One of my players is a Tech Priest, and he's going down the path of being a kind of research scientist type. The first thing that he wants to try is to invent a new type of solid projectile ammunition. Anyone have suggestions for the type/number of tests that would make sense for this? I want to make it achievable, but not too easy.

You could use the rules in the back of IH. Trade:Smith and Trade:armorer. That's IF you are interested in allowing such a Heresy to the Omnissia as R&D(Research and Development). Between all the books in DH, and RT/DW if you want to allow those. What ammunition is it looking to create that isn't covered in some way already, rubber bullets and beanbags for shotguns?

In my opinion he first would have to do some rolls:

• Common Lore (Tech) for the invention

If Successful, he now has a Blueprint that he can use. It has +1 to either Dam or Pen.
For every 2 DOS he can add +1 to Pen or Damage or some special the Bullet is meant to provide (GM approved).
Those are the max values that can be achieved in the actual building process.The GM should balance out special abilities with drawbacks like seen in some of the RAW special ammo (better vs unarmored, worse vs armour).

• Scholastic lore (Chymestry) for the right dosage of the propellant
• Trade (Armourer) vor the bullet casing
• Tech Use for assembling the Ammo

A success results in 5 Bullets with +1 to Damage or Pen. Additional DOS gained by those 3 tests can be spent the following:

• 2 DOS per additional +1 to Dam, Pen or Special till the maximum of the Blueprint
• 1 DOS per additional 5 Bullets produced.

Example:

Regius Russ wants to build Tracer ammo that makes hitting with burst and auto fire easier (A special effect).
On his Common Lore (Tech) test he rolls 4 DOS. So he chooses to have his ammo do +2 Damage (+1 free and +1 for 2 DOS) and spend the remaining 2 DOS on his special. The GM rules that for those 2 DOS burst fire gets +5 to hit and Full Auto gets +10 to hit with those bullets. In addition detecting the firer will be much easier, because the tracers show where the shots are coming from.

When manufactoring the bullets Regius adds his DOS. To produce 5 bullets with full bonus he needs 4 DOS, any remaining DOS could be spend to increase the amount.

I did not spend much time to calculate those numbers, they are just what I feel could work.
Feedback welcome.

Phantom - I'm not 100% certain what type of ammo he's (ahem) aiming for, but basically I just want to encourage it because he's adding a flavor and role-playing element to his character. Thanks for pointing me to the expanding skill rules in the back of IH. To be honest I'd sort of glossed over those and not read them very carefully.

Umbranus - Thanks a ton for the detailed idea. I think I'll use that as a basis for what I do at the very least.

There is also always the option of having the new ammunition do something interesting flavor wise but having it be very similar to, or even exactly like, one which already exists.

"I want to make cryo-rounds to freeze enemies"

"Okay, you made them, they work the same as implosion rounds, but freeze bits of the target instead of implode"

On a semi-related topic, my players are looking to get some Blessed Ammunition made. Do you think that a standard Imperial Temple would have personnel who could do that (the way all Catholic priests can all make Holy Water), or would that be something limited to only the highest-ranking members of the Ecclesiarchy (as the prohibitive cost would seem to imply)?

Adeptus-B said:

I'd think only more senior personnel in larger temples would have the capability. Otherwise, blessed ammunition would be quite common in the field of war as field Confessors cooked it up in their spare time. The Cleric involved would probably have to be a few ranks above your normal street preacher. Maybe around Bishop grade or something.

In Blood of Martyrs i think it says that you can sanctify items if you are a cleric of rank 6+, so i would assume an NPC would have to be of equal power. I do believe that you can bless items for a short time at lower ranks, but i cant remember at exactly which rank it is.

Thanks for the feedback!

Ahadiel said:

An important piece of information here, that it seems one of the people mentioned previously, but was glossed over somewhat. Creating a new, previously undiscovered type of ammunition, irregardless of type would have him treated as a Tech-Heretic. Be sure that the player is fully aware of this. many people new to the 40k universe are simply not aware of this, when they come into the game. I know I wasn't, and had to have it carefully explained to me.

Remember that technology has simply degraded over the last 40,000 years, so that much of technology has been lost, as well as the understanding of it... to the point that many times simple things like cleaning a weapon, has been reduced to a highly religious act. The simple act of cleaning a SP weapon, is simply not understood as to WHY it's done, as people just don't understand that a weapon must be taken apart and cleaned on a regular basic, so it won't misfire. So now the simple act of doing so, is a complicated ritual, and requires the rubbing of 'sacred machine oil' over the parts, while doing so. Trade-Technomat is a skill that describes this well "Used to maintain mechanical and tech items, often without an understanding of the item's true purpose".

Appropriate skills would include Common Lore-Tech, Trade-Technomat, Trade-Armourer, & Forbidden Lore-Archeotech. If he goes down this path, it's not necessarily your job to inform him that it's tech heresy to do so, unless the player is very new to the warhammer 40k universe.

You are correct if someone just does use new technology, that it's tech heresy.

BUT there are lots of passages in fluff that mention, that there still is developement of new technology or improvement of existing technology.*
So if the char that does invent that new ammo is a tech priest and if he takes the blueprint to a forgeworld to discuss it with other tech priests it could well be decided that it is ok to use it.

And on another path he could pretend to have found and reconstructed fragments of an STC for said ammo. That would be illegal but if done properly there would be little chance to get caught.

On the third path he could really base his developement on ancient data and so combine path 1 and 2. Clearly that would only be possible if the gm gave him something to base his research on.

*A lot of the vehicles used by the adeptus consist of changes on existing layouts. Some of them rather new.
The litte brother to the thunderhawk (forgot the name) is said to be a new design, if I remember correctly.
There is the MK8 Power Armor, thats just recently been developed.

As I know more SM fluff than other 40k I happen to know only examples about Astartes equipment, but I am sure if one looks at the rulebooks closely there will be examples, too.

Denmar1701 said:

Well, I sort of disagree.

If Joe Average in mid-hive is doing such a thing or even opening up a shop doing and distributing such stuff, it would most probably be considered least tech-heresy by the local Adeptus Mechanicus (depending how conservative the local branch in fact is though) and could entail some serious consequences.
If Arch-Magos Joe in his Forge World Armoury is doing such a thing or even distributing such stuff to the local Skitarii and Secutor cohorts, it would most probably be fully okay.

In 40K it depends often on who is doing something (inequality is part of its credo after all), so an overall answer in this regard is difficult to give. Research is almost only done for stuff that was lost and not for stuff that was never known in humanity’s history; even though there is some research by the AM in regard to xeno creatures (especially on how they function and how to better kill them) and stellar phenomenon for example. Development on the other hand seems not as restricted as research and most AM-facilities do just that all the time. Many weapon patterns and even weapon classes were developed by the AM (or even local Fanes and Forges like Belasco Deathworks or Cadence Arms) long after the Dark Age of Technology.

To cut a long story short, if a Magos or Artisan builds ammo with acid, poison, explosive, heavy metal cores for his SP-weapons, he is absolutely fine in my opinion and would not automatically be the target of a Sollex hunter-cadre or the Auxilla Myrmidon…

Indeed, I would be extremely wary of allowing players to modify or create new stuff as that goes against the entire feel of WH40K.

That doesn't mean its not possible but it shouldn't be easy. The background fluff mentions designs being argued over for centuries before being approved!

So just building some new kind of ammo just isn't on the cards. Even if your player has the skills to actually invent some new ammo (see skills that other posters have suggested).

I would also add the problems the player will experience getting his new ammo approved by the authorities. I would think he would need Peer (Ad-Mech) en Good Reputation (Ad-Mech) before even being allowed to do something like this because a proper acolyte wouldn't think of inventing something new so its logical to assume your player is already an experienced tech-priest. And for good measure, I'd throw in Peer (administratum/Munitorium) or Common Lore (administratum/Munitorum) to model the player's dealings with the bureacracy to get his ammo approved.... You could create some fun role-playing situations with this, perhaps even including some pit fights to demonstrate the advantages of this new ammo to disapproving bureaucrats....

All of this is assuming he doesn't mind becoming a heretek and just making some bullets in his shed.

Sure, developing new technology is tech-heresy, but bullet technology is pretty standard. Primer, powder, casing, slug. And recombinations of existing technology is generally okay, as long as the discrete parts aren't new. For example, adding a scope to a rifle isn't tech heresy, because you have two distinct pieces of tech, the scope and the rifle, and you're just using them together. Replacing one scope with another likewise isn't tech heresy because you're just changing the combination of discrete pieces. So why would developing a new cartridge from existing parts (again: primer, powder, casing, slug) be any different? For example, taking the slug out of a naval pistol cartridge (tearing quality) and putting it in a hand cannon cartridge (casing, primer, powder) isn't doing anything "new." If the Imperium discovered a planet of humans using bullets like this, I doubt the Tech-Priests would take much notice. So why would they if it showed up on a hive?

Now, the problem comes when you do too much tinkering and need a new chamber to accept your new cartridge. THAT's when you might get into tech heresy (depending on your local Magos), because you're redesigning an existing pattern in a large way.

Remember, though, that Gunmetal City takes great stock in their firearms and gunsmiths. So gunsmithing itself isn't tech heresy, at least on Scintilla. You probably need a license, but a dozen Secutors aren't going to bust into your workshop and gun you down without one, you'd likely get a visit from a Tech-Adept and he'd demand you pay the tax on your trade.

oh i can just see it now. all the arch magos making new ammunition. the many applications. say arrows filled with promethium that explode in a fireball or grenade arrows. snare bullets. shotgun shell grenades for a launcher. plenty of interesting ideas