For my Character (Tactical Imperial Fist with strong tendency to leadership, Fel 49, WP 61 at Rank 1) I want to purchase an upgraded Bolter as Signature Wargear. Do I have to pay for the Bolter itself and the Fire Selector again or can I just upgrade the Standard Issue stuff? And how does it work, if I want to upgrade the Craftmanship later on, when I can get Signature Wargear (Master).

Finally: Some hints on a nice kit for the 20 Req? The basic idea was to take Eye of Vengeance rather soon, so Red-Dot makes sense. With Bolter and Fire Selector thats already 17. Nothing else I could take on the upgrade list. I could take Telescopic Scope, Fire Selector and Melee Attachement Mono, but combining Sniper and Melee equipment seems rather pointless, especially as this character cannot stay in the back as the leader. (With the exception if someone else does the leader job because of Oath choices etc.)

And for 40 Req? Mastercrafted Bolter, Fire Selector, Red-Dot and auxiliary Grenade Launcher? Any ideas?

If you are going to signature wargear something you have to pay the full cost for the whole item. Even if your a tactical marine and come with your own bolter you have to req a whole new bolter, no upgrading existing equipment. You must also pay for all the attachments as well.

Signature wargear master allows you to upgrade only the piece of signature wargear you've previously requisitioned with the standard signature wargear. OR you may return your original signature wargear for a new item up to the 40 req limit.

Your math is correct, if you were to signature wargear a bolter with a fire selector and a red-dot sight it would cost 17 req out of the max of 20. If you were to upgrade the bolter to exceptional it would be 19.5 requisition (5x1.5=7.5 for bolter and craftsmanship upgrade, 10 for the sight, and 2 for the selector). Or you could spend the whole 20 for a Master craftsmanship bolter with a red-dot sight (but no selector), 12 for a master crafted bolter with selector.

Either way I would remind you the red-dot is always available (GM willing of course) to requisition with mission req. You could upgrade the craftsmanship and either requisitioning the selector or sight each mission...

Just thinking about the bolter... The bolter from the deathwatch comes with a selector so maybe it's already in the cost of the weapon.

So for your req see with your GM if he think that DW bolter from signature wargear is the same that the one you get then you might gain some point.

Thebigjul said:

Was thinking the same.

Fairly certain if the bolter you get through req had a fire selector on it, it would be stated somewhere to that effect.

These bolters are the ones they have in the back storehouse, I doubt they have all the bells and whistles the ones that get issued have.

herichimo said:

The Core Rulebook says the following on page 146:

The Deathwatch-pattern bolter incorporates a shot selector, while Battle-Brothers who bring weapons from their home Chapter add attachments for the same functionality.

Its debatable I suppose, but it reads to me like you would still get the fire selector for free if it's Signature Gear, unless it were ruled that it came from somewhere other than Deathwatch.

You would keep the fire selector since it's already part of the bolter (pp28 and 146)

My group plays the sig wargear talent can upgrade any of your default wargear. we count the standard item's req points as already spent so no need to pay a 2nd time. It hasn't proved unbalancing for us yet.

I'd suggest just using mission req points for now until you get more rep and spend your sig wargear on more powerful items. You dont get SW every level after all.

p126 sig wargear (-): "Select one item from the Armoury (excluding unusual ammunition)...This Requisition limit may include Upgrades and/or Craftsmanship modifiers in its calculation." we took this to mean that if you already had an item you could use sig wargear (normal/master/hero) to upgrade it. We also allow multiple upgrades for SW(-) due to the conflicting wording (pick 1 item, and then later: upgradeS AND/or craft mods)

Better to wait and get a stormbolter when you're Respected for the 20pts and use the rank 2 / Distinguished sig wargear to mastercraft the SB (20pts) + Motion Predictor (20pts) or MC + some combo of ammo/maglock/ fire selector. Since you already get the freebie +1 special mag/clip as bonus for being a tac marine, having an extra mag probably isn't such a big issue for you.

in our current campaign using the Oath of Glory (+1 renown per objective) for every mission: one mission before we hit rank 3 saw us at distinguished. Glory seems a little too good for renown gains... but i'm not complaining

I am aware getting a stormbolter etc. will probably be more effective. But I prefer to have something like a really mastercrafted-bolter back from my home chapter, scrimshawd by my own hands, then just another stormbolter. This, and I want to see just how effective this thing can get with appropiate upgrades. (Bolter, red-dot, Eye of Vengeance (Rank 1), Mighty shot, Mastercrafted, Arms Master Distinction for either accurate or felling 1)

Its not about the effect, but about the style.

master_death said:

If you can't look good while doing it, it's not worth doing.

Redemption NL said:

I do not think that this line will ever get into the 40K cannon, although its absolutely correct

master_death said:

Nobody is going to acknowledge it in-game, but the Imperium of Man far outdoes CP 2020 in the "Style over Substance" field.

Regarding your question, I'd go Master Craftsmanship Bolter + Fire Selector + Melee Attachment (Mono) right away, then slap on a Motion Predictor on the second talent. +2 damage from Master Craftsmanship goes a long way, Fire Selector is just too good (and cheap) not to take, and the melee attachment gives you that extra versatility. Then, Motion Predictor because with the new Bolter RoF, it's harder to score a reasonable amount of hits. You won't be sniping before you get the Mastery of Arms anyway, and then you can just requisition the Targeter for all sniping goodness you need. In fact, you will want to requisition a Targeter anyway, for that sweet -10 penalty on enemies' Dodge tests, so why fool yourself. Optionally, you might want to forgo the Fire Selector (you will always have enough Requisition to mount it before the mission) and go for the Chain melee attachment instead. This setup gives you maximum versatility, and Tactical Marines are at their best when versatile.

Plus, since you're shooting for style (pun not intended), the Motion Predictor is pretty much the most awe-inducing targeting system you can mount on any weapon, and a chain bayonet just screams 'Awesome!'

EDIT: Oh, and good luck playing one of the proud Sons of Dorn. IF are one of my favorite Chapters.

I'd wait and go for a Stalker boltgun with Stalker silenced bolt rounds, get a telescopic scope on it, and an auxiliary grenade launcher on it, with a di-pole maglock. Et voila, sniper boltgun with no penalties for shooting at range and an under-slung 4 shot grenade launcher to fire whatever tasty grenades you've requisitioned for the mission a lot further than you could throw them.

Thebigjul said:

Nope, to my mind. Bolter is 5, fire selector another 2.

I'd go for a stalker pattern with a combat blade and fire selector for 20 point wargear, if you want to fire single shots.

Hi,

sorry to sort of hijack the thread, but i was asking myself what the Astartes Melee Attachment offer over just holding Bolter/Melee in each hand? Is there something I am missing, aside from style-reasons?

br,

Steel