Hello all,

One of the very diffrent things about RT is that you can get some reall amazing things whether through Role Playing or just making Profit Factor tests. I have been thinking though what if a group wanted a Thunder Hawk Gun ship. How would they go about getting one? I am guessing the gunships are a littl big for straight rolls but I am curious what what the campaign look like to get one of these impressive ships.?

Well, Rogue Trader brings gear to a new level. In a game where player characters can try to get their hands on a Battlecruiser and the use of Titan Legions, getting a gun cutter (good Thunderhawk equivalent) is comparatively easy. This is indeed possible with an aquisition roll. Of course, as GM you can always overrule any rule, but in the context of the game gun cutters are not unlogical. And from experience, I can say they are **** handy. If you are afraid of the unbalancing possibilites, don't forget the golden GM rule, whatever the players can get, you can get better.

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void

You can do what the crew did in the Rogue Trader campaign I'm currently running.

Step 1: Get a Space Marine mad at you.

Step 2: Fail to escape the orbit of the Death World the Marine is guarding.

Step 3: Fail to shoot down the Thunderhawk the Marine is piloting on an intercept course.

Step 4: Flee the ship's command spire moments before the Marine intentionally crashes his Thunderhawk through the bridge's panoramic viewports.

Step 5: Burn two Fate Points while fighting the Marine to a stalemate in a depressurized corridor.

Step 6: Imprison the Space Marine in an improvised stasis field.

Step 7: Extract the Thunderhawk from the command spire.

Step 8: Spend over a week of downtime undermining the Thunderhawk's autimated defenses and security codes.

It's as easy as that.

They should be able to get a guncutter (rules are in Into the Storm), but getting an actual Thunderhawk? No, not without stealing one from some Space Marines.

Attila-IV said:

LOL well that is one way to do it :-) a friend of mine said to contact a Chaos Legion band and make a deal of some sort, since they would be happy to steal one.

van Riebeeck said:

That is a very good point, I had assumed that since getting any number of marines require a certain amount of Role Playing (according to the book anyway) then I assumed that a thunderhawk would too....goes to show

Like the Land Raider getting a Thunderhawk is iffy unless you steal or kill to get one. I don't think i'd allow an acquisition roll for one, only an influence roll with a Chapter that has one (not likely as they use theirs a LOT), or perhaps a Forge World that makes one.

Getting it is the easy part, explaining why you have one is tricky.

If the GM likes the idea of his players having a Thunderhawk (and they really seem to want one) he could let them find a minor STC and mention that they could cash it in for a lot profit facor or they could trade it to a Forge world to get a Thunderhawk (or some other implement of war they normally will not get).

There are two legal ways to handle it:

1) Make a deal with a forgeworld who produces them. While Thunderhawks are awesome it's not forbidden for normal humans to possess them unlike Land Raiders.

2) Get the friendship of an Astartes chapter so that they are willing to give you a squad with a Thunderhawk.

A Gun Cutter is essentially a Thunderhawk without the exquisite machine spirit of an Adeptus Astartes version. It is an expensive cookie and a good example of high end Imperial technology, but the basic version is fully within reach of any Rogue Trader. Call it the 'monkey version' of a Thunderhawk. It's limited void travel capability is very handy as well.

A Thunderhawk itself with all the extra's will be quite a bit harder, as they seem to be reserved to the Astartes and the Inquisition. But, with good Roleplay and the right choices it might even be possible. Of course, there is also the option of grabbing one, but I myself would try to avoid at all cost conflicts with those two organisations.

FvR

van Riebeeck said:

Ahem. The gun-cutter is a pale shadow of the Astartes Thunderhawk. Besides the machine spirit, a gun-cutter also lacks the ridiculous firepower of the Astartes version, has half the hull integrity, and is less maneuverable to boot. The upper echelons of the adepta keep all the really cool toys for themselves; even a wealthy Rogue Trader has almost no hope of getting Astartes or Inquisition grade gear.

That's not to say the gun-cutter is useless; it is quite decent. It simply is not in the Thunderhawk's league.

Cheers,

- V.

True, you haven't got all the missile batteries and other extra's, but it is a perfect 'poor man's' variant. And the vital bits, a well armed very flexible craft stays valid.

FM

bobh said:

So that forge world we're headed to they gonna load us up a thunderhawk if my void-mistress asks nicely?

Mjoellnir said:

Umm, the Inquisition can use Land Raiders, and they are "normal" humans. Aquiring a Thunderhawk or a Landraider I would make an adventure myself, no lucky dice rolls out of that one!

Hygric said:

The decree from the emperor was that land raiders were to be restricted to the Space Marines, however a few has since been manufactured for the Inquisition. I somehow think asking a forgeworld to make one for a Rogue Trader counts as heresy and not something they'd be willing to do. Could try to commandeer one, but I think the machine spirit would protest. Likewise if you tried to take one from chaos marines...

But, in the end, what's a RPG without houserules?

Hygric said:

Ordo Malleus are the only Inquisitors known to use them going by the Daemonhunters codex, and are the only Ordo that happens to have a Space Marine Chapter as their militant arm.

Inquisitors have had landraiders for donkeys years, the Ordo Xenos also has a militant SM force... Deathwatch

Point still stands though, normal humans don't get land raiders. Death Watch are all space marines. So no, Inquisitors haven't had Land Raiders, certain parts of the Inquisition has access to it. There's a major difference. And again, Rogue Traders are not likely to get one fluff wise.

NGL said:

You can ask. Now i'll have to find out what laughing in binary sounds like and find a way to explain that in writing. Supplying proscribed/reserved weaponry to non Astartes would likely violate their treaties and agreements with Astartes they are responsible for supplying.

Getting actual Astartes Gear will be difficult.

Getting something that looks a LOT like it and has virtually the same capabilities... is a matter of negotiating a deal with your local forge world to have them make it.

In BFK it mentions that heavy mechanized infantry may be riding around in land raiders, which I took to mean a "knock off" or similar patterned vehicle with similar capabilities. For that matter it even gives stats for titans... with the stipulation that it takes more than a acquisition roll to get one. Getting something that looks and acts like a Thunderhawk would be almost infinitely easier.

By the way Rogue Traders are not "normal" people, they are "peers of the imperium" in a feudal society that does not mean a lot.. it means everything.

Landraiders are, under a decree ordained by the Emperor, Astartes only. It is immutable, within reason - some jackanapes could steal one or recover one and use it as long as he didnt get caught by someone that cared- if you stick to fluff. Likewise a RT could get one, under the right circumstances, but its a game do whats fun I suppose.

If you want an equivalent go for a Crassus Super Heavy Tank, similar armour, carries way more troops and can be retro fitted with different guns other than its standard heavy bolters. I created the following stats for them in my campaign:

-----

The Crassus is an immense super-heavy armoured transport utilized by the Imperial Guard. The Crassus is named after one of Lord Solar Macharius' greatest generals, Borgen Crassus of the Fifth Army Group. The Crassus is equipped with a searchlight and smoke launchers, and armed with four Heavy Bolter sponsons, each which can be replaced with either Heavy Flamers, Autocannons, or Lascannons. The Crassus has a maximum carrying capacity of thirty infantry units, and/or two Cyclops demolition vehicles. The Crassus may also be upgraded with a Hunter-killer missile, Dozer Blade, or a pintle mounted Storm Bolter or Heavy Stubber. Thousands of Crassus armoured transports were used by the Cadian 6th Armoured during fighting on Betalis III.

There is one access point for passengers, a ramp at the rear of the vehicle.

One Crassus may be carried on a HALO Barge.

Variants:

PARRWOOD Pattern - Base Pattern, most common. Heavy Bolter sponsons.
ARMAGEDDON Pattern - Swaps all heavy bolters for Autocannon, increasing troop capacity to 40 plus crew.
MARS Pattern - Eliminates a pair of sponson heavy bolters for a pair of LasCannon, reducing troop capacity to 10 total plus crew.
HADES Pattern - Swaps all its sponson mounted heavy bolters for Heavy Flamers reducing troop capacity to 10 total plus crew.

Optional Upgrades:

The Crassus may be equipped with a dozer blade, hunter-killer missile, pintle mounted storm bolter or heavy stubber. Base models come equipped with attachment points for this equipment.

Any Crassus may trade its side sponsons for heavy armoured plates increasing its side armour to 50.

TACTICAL SPEED:

15 m

CRUISING SPEED:

70 kph

MANOEUVRABILITY: -10
STRUCTURAL INTEGRITY: 60
SIZE: Enormous
ARMOUR:

Front [ 50 ], Side [ 45 ], Rear [ 40 ]

CREW: Driver, Commander, 2 Gunners
CARRYING CAPACITY:

30 Soldiers with gear.

WEAPONS:

2 Front-Mounted Sponson Heavy Bolter (Facing Front, 120m Range, Heavy, -/-/10, 2d10 X, Pen 5, Clip 60, Reload 2Full)
2 Side-Mounted Sponson Heavy Bolter (Facing Left-Front/Right-Front, 120m Range, Heavy, -/-/10, 2d10 X, Pen 5, Clip 60, Reload 2Full)

SPECIAL RULES:

Ground Vehicle
Reliable - Any Tech-Use Test to repair or restore this vehicle receives a +20 bonus.
Demolition Vehicles - The Crassus may carry up to two CYCLOPS Demolition Vehicles in stead of 10 troopers (5 per vehicle).
Searchlight -
Smoke Launchers -

-----

Forgeworld has some nice pics of a painted model. Its really a nice looking tank with great potential. And not generally illegal for any non Astartes to own.

If I am right, Black Ships tend to employ Thunderhawks as well. But the fact remains that getting an Astartes level craft will always remain a very, very difficult proposition, where RP should dictate the results. Contrary to the 'ordinary' guncutter.

FvR

Allow me to lob a spanner into the works... What about Stormbirds? If I recall correctly, the Stormbird (a.k.a. Warhawk Mark VI) was the original Astartes assault shuttle back in the day when the Emperor and Primarchs walked amongst mortal men. But, it got replaced by the Thunderhawk sometime during the Great Crusade. So, the loyalist chapters haven't used them for ten millennia.

Assuming you could actually find one of the bloody things, would a RT be able to use a Stormbird without risking Imperial censure?

Cheers,

- V.

Vandegraffe said:

I imagine you'd have a different problem. Every single Stormbird was manufactured on Terra during and immediately after the Reunification Wars by the manufactories of the Yndonesic Bloc... due to their involvement in such important historical events, I can imagine that the Ecclesiarchy and the Adeptus Mechanicus alike would be on hand to claim it as a relic (it's not like the church hasn't attempted similar with things like Crusade-era Warrants of Trade, as the fact that the Emperor signed them makes them incalculably precious from a religious perspective), and I imagine the Astartes wouldn't be too far behind for similar reasons.

If you can find an intact, functioning Stormbird, it'd be a miracle, as each one is more than ten thousand years old (remember, the end of the Heresy was about 300.M31, so you're looking at machines that were created within the first century of the 31st Millennium), and nobody now remembers how they were put together or maintained (well, there are a couple, but the artificers of old are either long dead or serving Chaos, or both - the likes of Bjorn the Fell-Handed will remember using them, however, as he was in his prime when they were being phased out of service). Being non-STC (STC technology is Martian, the Reunification Wars are pre-Treaty of Mars, so the Imperium didn't have STC technology... that's actually why they phased the Stormbird out in favour of the Thunderhawk). If you can keep hold of it amidst all the clamour to claim a relic of the earliest days of the Imperium, it's an even bigger miracle...