1. When playing with Abhoth and a monster surge occurs, do you add a Child of Abhoth in addition to the normal monsters added? Or is it counted as one of the monsters added normally?

2. When playing with Abhoth and the mythos card, Strange Sightings! , is drawn, do you still play a Child of Abhoth even though no gate is shown on the card? If so, which gate? Just pick one?

Musha Shukou said:

The wording on Abhoth is terrible and I see an issue with monster limits as well.

1. I would suggest that a Child of Abhoth is placed in addition but such a issue comes down to personal choice on how you want to play it.. The wording on Abhoth seems to imply, to me at least, that it isn't a replacement monster but an additional one.

2. I guess you should place a Child of Abhoth on a random gate.

I think the intent is a Child of Abhoth monster is added each time a monster surge occurs no matter what. After the Mythos card is resolved then there must be an extra Child of Abhoth somewhere on the board.

I would add two new questions.

3. What happens if the number of monsters on the board is already at the limit when the monster surge occurs? Does the CoA count towards the monster limit? Should the CoA be placed in the Outskirts? What happens if the outskirts are full, does the CoA go in the monster cup?

This appears to be a mess. I would suggest that the CoA can only ever be on the AO sheet or on the board (so to this end it can reside in the Outskirts). I don't think CoA can ever end up in the Monster Cup. How to deal with an 8 player game when the Outskirts limit is 0? Bump the Terror Track straight up to 10 (as the CoA tries to repeatedly get back on the board) therefore the monster limit is removed?

4. What does "If all 3 Children of Abhoth are already on the board" really mean. At first it might seem to say that this is triggered when the third CoA is placed on the board but since it says "already on the board" it actually would mean when the fourth CoA needs to be placed.

My main complaint here is that the choice of words are poor and it could have been made clearer what the intent was. As could the entirewording on the Abhoth AO card.

1) Yes, in addition to the normal monsters.

2) I think you would add a child to that. First player chooses which gate.

3) Children of Abhoth are Spawn monsters, so they can appear on the board even if the monster limit has been reached, and do not count towards the monster limit. (This one is in the DH rules)

4) It means "when you would add a fourth"

cim said:

Good point, that clears up most of these questions for me.

xris said:

First and most importantly, Children of Abhoth are Spawn monsters, as detailed in the Dunwich rulebook, meaning they never count against the monster limit and thus will never be placed in the outskirts. Therefore placing the Child of Abhoth is almost certainly in addition to the monsters placed for a monster surge. On a general monster surge card without a gate card, we just roll randomly to see which gate the Child should exit. Finally, I always thought it pretty clear that "If all three Children of Abhoth are already on the board" was meant to apply if you have a surge when all three Children are already out from previous monster surges.

Concerning the placement of the Child of Abhoth, when the mythos card depicts no gate, you might analoguesly apply this answer concerning the Rift placement (taken from the “Official Answers from Kevin Wilson” thread: www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp ):

[KH] 9. What happens when the Mythos card that triggers a Rift has no gate location (Is a double doom token card or Next Act Begins). Do you just draw the next Mythos card, used that location and then discard the card? (06/13/08)
Correct. Just draw again until you get a gate location for the rift to appear at.

...and that is why in my games, Rifts open in Kingsport ...

In a sleepy little mist-shrouded town named Kingsport on
the coast of Massachusetts, ancient forces have begun to
stir. The barrier between worlds – never that thick to begin
with in this dream-haunted place – has begun to fray,
leaving rifts in the fabric of reality that can be felt as far
away as the neighboring city of Arkham.

Since the barrier is beginning to fray...let it fray in Kingsport . There are a few reasons behind this decision...

1.) Kingsport duty shouldn't be a chore, but an adventure like the streets and locations of both Arkham and Dunwich

2.) There are places in which an Investigator can spend Monster Trophies...so why not oblige the intrepid Investigator

3.) It eliminates some of the more nonsensical issues such as Mythos cards without locations (to determine the location of the Open Rift) or monsters and or gates moving rapidly into Dunwich -vortices

I think the problem is that the text for Abhoth uses the expression "surging gate." However, the AH and DH rules never mention "surging gates" or explain what they are. I assume that a surging gate must be a gate where a monster surge occurred. I don't see what else it could be.

In that case, it looks like any effect that produces a monster surge, but which does not specify a surging gate (like a Strange Sightings card), would not produce a Child of Abhoth. I wish that weren't the case, but that seems to be the gist of the rules. If there's no surging gate, there's no place to put the Child of Abhoth.

I'd probably house rule it like cim - if there's no surging gate, the first player chooses the gate at which the Child appears