Hello,

I've picked up the Talisman game a while ago and recently we've played the game a lot during a gaming weekend. Everyone loved the game, but it did raise lots of questions left and right. I've been going through the rules and cards to write down any possible questions that might arise, and then went through the rules once more, the FAQ and the 5 most recent pages of this forum, to check for clarifications. While that provided a lot of answers, it still left me with a bunch of unanswered questions, so here they are:

Characters:

Q. When I'm the Druid and land on the Woods, but want to encounter another character rather than visiting the Woods, do I still get to replenish my spells (The FAQ says before resolving any encounters, but I'm not sure if that only refers to card encounters on the space or also encounters with other characters)?

Q. When I'm the Druid and my alignment is altered without my choice, can I still voluntarily change my alignment during the same turn?

Q. When I'm the Monk or Priest and I roll a 6 or 12 for praying, can I choose a 7 or 13 to not get any effect (The Shrine is one example where a 6 might not be desirable)?

Q. When I'm the Thief and I land on the Village or Market, can I choose to steal an item and still decide to attack another character on the space rather than encounter the space itself?

Q. When I'm the Minstrel, and I use an Animal follower in battle, do I keep the follower?

Q. When I'm the Minstrel or Ghoul, and I encounter the Cursed by a Hag follower, do I lose all my Animal and Raised followers? Can I recruit new Animal and Raised followers?

Q. When I'm the Minstrel and I land on a character who has both the Maiden follower and the Princess follower, can I steal both during the same encounter?

Q. When I'm the Sorceress and I land on a character who has a Mule follower, can I steal the Mule follower?

Q. When I'm the Sorceress and I land on a character who has the Cursed by a Hag or Poltergeist follower, can I steal the Cursed by a Hag or Poltergeist follower?

Spaces:
Q. When I'm at the Village, can I decide to visit the Blacksmith, and then decide not to buy any object, to prevent having to visit the Mystic?

Q. When I'm at the Village and visit the Blacksmith, can I buy an object more than once? Can I buy an object and then decide not to take it with me, leaving it behind on the space?

Q. I'm a goodaligned character and do not have the Cross. I land on the Graveyard, which is currently haunted by a Ghost. The psychic combat results in a stand-off. Do I lose a life to the Graveyard?

Q. When I land on the Cursed Glade and encounter the space, I cannot use my magic objects and spells. When another character lands on the Cursed Glade, but decides to attack me, can he use magic objects and spells? Can I use them during the fight? If I have a Craft of 2, a Ring and a Wand, does that mean I get a spell when I'm attacked?

Q. When I arrive at the Werewolf's Den or the Pits at a second time during the same game with the same character, do I fight the same Werewolf or the same amount of Pitfiends? What if I did not kill the Werewolf or did not kill the last Pitfiends last time I was here?

Q. When I roll a 1-3 to cast the Command spell, can I use Fate to reroll the die?

Events:

Q. When Evil Darkness, Siren or Storm affects me while I'm a Toad, does the missed turn count towards my 3 turns as a toad? If it counts as my 3rd turn, when do I stop being a Toad?

Q. During Market Day, can I buy a follower or object more than once? Can I buy a follower or object and then decide not to take it with me, leaving it behind on the space?

Q. During Market Day, can I buy a Raft in the inner region? Can I buy a Raft when I already own a Raft?

Enemies:
Q. I land on the Hidden Oasis and draw a Bandit, a Dragon and a Water Bottle. If I pay 1 gold to the Bandit, do I still fight the Dragon? Can I pick up the Water Bottle after defeating the Dragon, even though the Bandit remains? If I draw 2 Bandits, can I pay 2 gold to bribe both? Can I pick up the Water Bottle after bribing both Bandits?

Followers:

Q. Can I have 2 identical followers (2 Mules or 2 Guides)? What if the followers are from different decks (1 Mule from the Adventure deck and 1 Mule from the Purchase deck)? If I have 2 Mules, how many objects can I carry?

Q. When I have the Alchemist and am carrying 4 objects, and I encounter a space that has 1 object in it, can I turn the object in the space into gold without dropping any of my other objects? Can I turn one of my objects into gold to pick up the object in the space?

Q. When I have the Alchemist, can I convert a Raft I built with my Axe last round into Gold? If so, can I spend this turn to build another Raft?

Q. I'm the Troll with 1 life remaining and the Prince and Princess as my followers. When I land on the Castle, can I heal back to 6 lives for free as the Castle indicates, or back to 3 lives as the Prince or Princess indicates, or can I count them together and heal back up to 5 lives? If I can heal back up to 3 or 5 lives for free, can I still pay 3 or 1 gold to get healed up to 6 lives?

Q. When I start my turn at the Castle, and I have the Prince and Princess as my followers, can I cash them in for 3 gold each before rolling the die to move?

Q. When I have the Prince and Princess as my followers and I land on the Castle, can I cash them in for 3 gold each, but decide to attack another character on the Castle space, rather than visiting the Royal Doctor?

Objects:
Q. Can I have 2 identical objects (2 Swords or 2 Talismans)? What if the objects are from different decks (1 Sword from the Adventure deck and 1 Sword from the Purchase deck)? If I am the Warrior, can I wield 2 identical weapons?

Q. When I encounter or buy a Raft on the Crags, can I use it to travel to the Chasm? When I encounter or buy a Raft on the Plains next to the Crags, can I use it to travel to the Runes next to the Warlock's Cave?

Q. Can I decide to build a Raft using an Axe, and then decide not to take it with me? Does it remain on the space for another character to pick up or does it return to the Purchase deck?

Q. When I have an Axe and the Raft from the Adventure deck and I am at the Woods or the Forest, can I decide to build another Raft, effectively skipping a turn?

Q. When I have an Axe and I am at the Woods or the Forest, but there currently is no Raft available in the Purchase deck, since another player just built a Raft, can I decide to build a Raft, effectively skipping a turn?

Q. When does a Bag of Gold turn into an Object? Does this happen when drawn, when encountered, or when picked up?

Q. I carry the Amulet object but want to cast a spell. Can I drop the Amulet object on the space I am at to cast the spell?

Q. I use the Rune Sword object and fight 2 Wild Boars in combat. I win the combat and both Wild Boars are slain. Do I receive 1 or 2 lives? What if another character casts the Preservation spell to save one of the Wild Boars?

Spells:

Q. I start my turn with 1 spell. I land on the Ruins and encounter Magical Vortex, which takes my spell, and Mage, who gives me the Healing spell. Can I cast the Healing spell, even though I was without spells for a while?

Q. Can I cast Alchemy to convert a Raft I built with my Axe last round into Gold? If so, can I spend this turn to build another Raft?

Q. When I want to Counterspell the Aquisition, Alchemy, Destruction, Healing, Hex, Immobility, Invisibility, Mesmerism, Nullify, Random or Teleport spell, do I need to do so before the caster decides which characters, spaces, creatures and cards to affect, or can I do so after?

Q. I carry the Amulet when another character casts a spell, which I want to Counterspell. Can I drop the Amulet on the space I am at to cast the Counterspell spell?

Q. Can I Counterspell the Destroy Magic spell or Nullify spell cast on me, or do they prevent me from casting the Counterspell spell?

Q. Does Destroy Magic affect the character carrying the Amulet? Can the character carrying the Amulet drop it after Destroy Magic has been cast to cast spells?

Q. Can I use Destruction to destroy a card from the Purchase or Talisman deck?

Q. Can I cast Healing during combat? When I am attacked, can I cast it after the attacker rolled, but before I rolled? Can I cast it after I rolled, but before I spend fate to reroll the die? Can I cast it after I've lost the combat, but before the attacker decided if he wants to take an object or gold, or take my life? Can I cast it after the attacker decided he wants to take my life, but before I rolled for my armour? Can I cast it after I rolled for my armour, but before I spend fate to reroll the die?

Q. Can I cast Healing when someone announces to cast the Command spell? Can I cast Healing after someone rolled the die for the Command spell?

Q. Does the Hex spell count towards the number of cards on that space (If the Hex spell is the only spell at the Fields and I land on the Fields, do I still draw a card)?

Q. Do I lose a life to the Hex spell when I land on that space, but decide to attack another character in the space rather than encountering space?

Q. Can I use Destruction to destroy the Hex spell?

Q. When I want to cast Immobility on a character, when do I cast it? The card says it must be cast at the start of a turn, but the rules actually use an example where she casts it during her move to pass the Sentinel.

Q. Can I cast Invisibility after rolling 2 in the Tavern?

Q. Can I decide to encounter another character rather than visiting a space, but then play Invisibility to evade the other character?

Q. Can I cast Preservation to prevent the Priest or any character with the Cross from automatically destroying a Spirit? If so, do they still get to fight the Spirit, or is the fight immediately considered a stand-off?

Q. Can I cast Preservation to prevent the Prince or Princess being discarded at the Castle?

Q. Can I cast Preservation to prevent the Hag from being discarded at the Mystic or the Poltergeist from being discarded when crossing water?

Q. Can I cast Preservation to prevent turning in a follower as part of the Warlock quest? Do I still get a Talisman?

Q. When I'm the Ghoul, can I cast Preservation to prevent one of my Raised followers from disintegrating after I used it in battle?

Q. When someone casts Random on me, can I spend fate to reroll my die for the effect?

Sorry if it may come over as nit-picking, but some people like to play "by the book". ;-)

Wow, that is quite a list of questions. From reading over them I think you are overanalyzing the game too much. Despite how RPG Talisman is like, it is a board game, not an RPG. A large number of your questions are regarding exceptions to certain scenarios. Unless an exception is written somewhere (in the rules or on the cards) then no exception applies. I don't happen to have my set in front of me, but here are some general ideas to help you work things through.

Read the cards as literally as possible. Don't play the "but if" game. As an example you asked about the minstrel and the cursed hag (doing this off the top of my head so I apologize if I am wrong about the text): 1) Mistrel says you may take Enemy-Animals as followers, 2) hag says get rid of all followers, 3) hag has no exceptions for minstrels or other special followers... therefore you lose the animal followers.

Follow the Golden Rules in the rulebook

Special Ability vs. Rules, Can vs. Cannot, Natural vs. Modif ied Roll, Limited Resources

A couple things worth noting.

Special Ability vs. Rules in a nutshell states that the text on a card is considered the highest authority.

Can vs Cannot can be interpreted from the opposite direction. If a card or rule says that you <can, may, or must> do something and there is nothing explicitly preventing/forbidding you from carrying out the action, then you <can, may, or must> carry out the action.

This is not a golden rule (but probably should be) If you are given a choice of options to take, you must choose an option that is legal to carry out, and that you are capable of carrying out. From your questions you can't go to the blacksmith and not buy, you can't go to the alchemist and not sell, and you can't modify a die roll to an invalid number.

Hopefully that will help you; look back over your questions, dig out the relevant cards, and see if just reading them literally will help you work out your problems. If you still have questions left, use search in the forum to see if it has been asked before. Anything left after that feel free to bring back and I'm sure that someone with more rules knowledge than I have will be glad to help out.

Hi, a lot of questions there and since I like rethinking the rules of Talisman, I take the time to answer. But in general I agree with Daerfaroth: there are general rules in Talisman that should always be applied, to each situation and consistently. Exceptions are rare and only some very specific gameplay issue requires a special ruling, usually addressed by Rulebook or FAQ.

It would have helped if you numbered your questions, since it is not easy to track Q & A.

Thels said:

1) Druid ability is a "land on" ability; you get your Spells as soon as you land on a Woods space. No matter if you encounter Woods of a Character standing there.

2) You can voluntarily change your Alignment once in a Turn, but you can't cancel the effect of the forced alignment change. If you've been turned to Evil, you can return to Neutral/Good immediately thanks to the ability, but still suffer effect of being temporary Evil (e.g. drop the Holy Grail).

3) No. Results not included in the table on cards/spaces simply do not exist (7 or 13 don't mean "no effect", they just can't be totalized).

4) No, the ability requires encountering the Village or Market (visiting means actually encounter the space/card)

5) Yes, if the ability doesn't say to discard after battle why would you?

6) No, these "Followers" have no Follower keyword and are not affected by any effect regarding Followers. If dropped/ditched they are discarded (this was ruled officially but it's not in the FAQ).

7) It is written "Maiden AND Princess". It's clear.

8) It is a Follower, why won't you?

9) They are Followers, why won't you?

Thels said:

1) No, you have actually to do something during your visit. If you can't heal at the Healer and can't buy at the Blacksmith, you have to visit the Mystic.

2) Yes to both

3) No, according to the Talisman encounter sequence you encounter face up cards on non-draw spaces before encountering the space. In the example turn ends before you're able to encounter the Graveyard.

4) Yes, because if you encounter a Character you don't encounter the space. As for the Wand, you should have a Spell already from the previous Turn (you had it before landing on the Cursed Glade, but were unable to use it).

5) Every time you land on a space follow the instructions on the space.

6) Yes, why not?

Thels said:

1) Yes, missed turns are still Turns. You stop being a Toad at the beginning of the first turn when you revert back to normal.

2) Yes to both

3) Yes, but remember that a Raft cannot be carried or ditched. If you don't use it after having the card, it is discarded (so no tricks possible).

Thels said:

1) Paying the Bandit doesn't cancel the battle, you'll fight the Dragon alone. To take Objects/Followers on a space, there shall be no Enemies on it. Of course each Bandit counts as a separate Enemy before battle is resolved (you have to pay both).

Thels said:

1) Why do you think any of these questions is necessary? 2 Mules carry 4 x 2 = 8 additional objects.

2) no, you have to pick up the object to turn it into Gold; sure you can turn into Gold another Object instead and pick it up.

3) Strange idea, but yes, you can if you desperately need Gold.

4) Each Follower grants you 2 Lives for free. You have to pay for the remaining .

5) No, this requires visiting the Space.

Thels said:

1) As per Follower 1st question, these are all yes/doesn't matter answers.

2) You can cross the river to any space that is opposite to the space you're in. Just notice of some extra broad spaces that can be reached by multiple spaces.

3) No, it's clearly written than a Raft is discarded if not used, don't remember if on the card, in the Rulebook or both.

4) Yes, effectively wasting a turn.

5) Never had such a situation, but I think that if there's no Raft available, you don't get a Raft (better not build one)

6) A Bag of Gold IS an Object. When you encounter it, it immediately turns into a Gold coin (= no need to have free inventory room)

7) Yes, you can ditch Objects/Followers at any time, but can't pick them up in the same Turn.

8) You receive only one Life in both cases. They're considered a single Enemy for the purpose of abilities such as the Runesword. This was confirmed officially in a thread but it's not in the FAQ.

Thels said:

1) Yes

2) Yes. Are you so keen on building Rafts?

3) No, you may cast it after knowing the target.

4) Yes

5) Counterspell can cancel any Spell before it takes place. Along with Reflection from the reaper expansion, this is the only Spell with such a precedence.

6) It doesn't affect him, but this doesn't matter very much. If he keeps the Amulet he can't cast spell, if he ditches it he's affected by Destroy Magic until it's effect expires.

7) Only if they are face up on the board

8) You can cast it as required. Period

9) yes

10) Yes, it counts towards the number of cards on the space. No draw

Thels said:

1) If the Spell Hex says "land on" you lose a life as soon as you land on the space. I don't remember the text.

2) yes

3) This is unclear on the Spell card. It was clarified that you can cast it as required if the target is a creature (like in the Sentinel example) and if cast on a Character, this shall happen at the start of his turn.

4) Yes

5) Yes

6) Need to look at the Preservation Spell text. If it says that it prevents a creature/Follower from bein killed, it works always. The fight is considered a stand-off. This is a tricky question without the card before my eyes

7) no, they're not killed but voluntarily discarded

8) no, as above

9) no, as above

10) no, they're not actual Followers

11) yes, as any other die roll that you make for your Character

The_Warlock said:

Those animal, or resurected followers are still followers for the minstrel or ghoul.

As far as i know, you can lose them just as normal followers, except that if you ditch them, then they are discarded.

But other players can't steal them because them don;t have the follower keyword.

Thanks a lot for the help, I can understand it was a bit excessive, and perhaps I should have indeed cut it down somewhat and only ask the ones that can have a major influence in the game and decide the others myself. Still, thanks a lot for going through them!

>>>> When I'm the Minstrel or Ghoul, and I encounter the Cursed by a Hag follower, do I lose all my Animal and Raised followers? Can I recruit new Animal and Raised followers?

>> No, these "Followers" have no Follower keyword and are not affected by any effect regarding Followers. If dropped/ditched they are discarded (this was ruled officially but it's not in the FAQ).

A) So I assume that also means they cannot be sacrificed at the Vampire's Tower or similar incidents, and they cannot die at the Chasm?

>>>> When I'm the Minstrel and I land on a character who has both the Maiden follower and the Princess follower, can I steal both during the same encounter?

>> It is written "Maiden AND Princess". It's clear.

B) I wasn't sure, since it could also mean those are the followers that are available for stealing (Original idea seems to be that the Minstrel can steal the female followers, while the Sorceress can steal the male followers, rather than that the Minstrel can steal multiple followers at the same time).

>>>> When I land on the Cursed Glade and encounter the space, I cannot use my magic objects and spells. When another character lands on the Cursed Glade, but decides to attack me, can he use magic objects and spells? Can I use them during the fight? If I have a Craft of 2, a Ring and a Wand, does that mean I get a spell when I'm attacked?

>> 4) Yes, because if you encounter a Character you don't encounter the space. As for the Wand, you should have a Spell already from the previous Turn (you had it before landing on the Cursed Glade, but were unable to use it).

C) The space says you cannot use them until you leave the space again, which could be read as "moving elsewhere" which is not yet done when I'm attacked, while your answer seems to indicate "done with the instructions on the space" which is done at the end of my own turn.

Since the Curse prevents me from using the Ring, doesn't the Craft of 2 mean I need to discard the Spell I have?

>>>> When I arrive at the Werewolf's Den or the Pits at a second time during the same game with the same character, do I fight the same Werewolf or the same amount of Pitfiends? What if I did not kill the Werewolf or did not kill the last Pitfiends last time I was here?

>> Every time you land on a space follow the instructions on the space.

D) So that means that if I encounter a Werewolf with a Strength of 12 while I have a Strength of 7 myself, I could I as my next turn go back to Dice with Death (and because I'm withdrawing, that means take 3 turns to reach the Plane of Peril, so that in 6 turns I might encounter a weaker Werewolf, or would that indicate I have to fight the same Strength 12 Werewolf once more?

>>>> During Market Day, can I buy a Raft in the inner region? Can I buy a Raft when I already own a Raft?

>> Yes, but remember that a Raft cannot be carried or ditched. If you don't use it after having the card, it is discarded (so no tricks possible).

E) But it still means I can buy a Raft to prevent others from buying one as well, possibly leaving them stuck in the Outer Region for say 2 more rounds, which I guess is a trick on it's own.

>>>> Can I have 2 identical followers (2 Mules or 2 Guides)? What if the followers are from different decks (1 Mule from the Adventure deck and 1 Mule from the Purchase deck)? If I have 2 Mules, how many objects can I carry?

>> Why do you think any of these questions is necessary? 2 Mules carry 4 x 2 = 8 additional objects.

F) To be honest, when we played it, none of us ever bought more than a single Mule, because it never crossed our minds that it might be possible. This could help.

>>>> When I encounter or buy a Raft on the Crags, can I use it to travel to the Chasm? When I encounter or buy a Raft on the Plains next to the Crags, can I use it to travel to the Runes next to the Warlock's Cave?

>> You can cross the river to any space that is opposite to the space you're in. Just notice of some extra broad spaces that can be reached by multiple spaces.

G) I know about that, I was just wondering for these two exact spaces, since the common part of the river is so tiny I wonder if it counts.

>>>> Can I decide to build a Raft using an Axe, and then decide not to take it with me? Does it remain on the space for another character to pick up or does it return to the Purchase deck?

>> No, it's clearly written than a Raft is discarded if not used, don't remember if on the card, in the Rulebook or both.

H) That applies to Rafts in your possession. Talismanamsilat said in the following thread:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=129&efcid=1&efidt=480402

>> That refers to when a player actually takes a Raft and keeps it until his following turn, in which case it cannot be left behind (ditched) and is discarded or put back in the Purchase deck.
>>
>> If a player draws a Raft from the Adventure deck and he chooses not to keep it or is unable to take it (undefeated Enemy, Event, etc.), it is left faceup on the space until a player does pick it up and adds it to his Objects!
>>
>> Ell.

If I follow that train of thought, that would indicate that I could visit the Woods in the Middle Region, build a Raft, decide not to pick it up and leave it behind. However, that would be kind of cheezy, because that would basically prevent anyone in the Outer Region from building a Raft, until someone wasted a turn encountering the Raft on the Woods in the Middle Region.

>>>> When I have an Axe and I am at the Woods or the Forest, but there currently is no Raft available in the Purchase deck, since another player just built a Raft, can I decide to build a Raft, effectively skipping a turn?

>> Never had such a situation, but I think that if there's no Raft available, you don't get a Raft (better not build one)

I) It's obvious you don't get a Raft, but I wasn't sure if you could still waste a turn, for whatever reason (I have the Poltergeist follower, and I'm at the Woods in between two spaces showing a Dragon. I like to waste a turn, so I can build a real raft next turn). However, for a lot of things in Talisman, if it has no effect, you cannot do it (Cast spells, visit the Healer when you're at full health, etc...).

>>>> When does a Bag of Gold turn into an Object? Does this happen when drawn, when encountered, or when picked up?

>> A Bag of Gold IS an Object. When you encounter it, it immediately turns into a Gold coin (= no need to have free inventory room)

J) My bad, I meant turned into a Gold token. So that means that someone could still cast Destruction on the bag of gold before it is actually encountered?

>>>> I carry the Amulet when another character casts a spell, which I want to Counterspell. Can I drop the Amulet on the space I am at to cast the Counterspell spell

>> Yes

K) Hmm, if I can drop objects in reaction to a spell, would that also indicate I can drop objects in reaction to an Acquisition spell, to prevent the caster from taking that item?

>>>> Can I cast Healing during combat? When I am attacked, can I cast it after the attacker rolled, but before I rolled? Can I cast it after I rolled, but before I spend fate to reroll the die? Can I cast it after I've lost the combat, but before the attacker decided if he wants to take an object or gold, or take my life? Can I cast it after the attacker decided he wants to take my life, but before I rolled for my armour? Can I cast it after I rolled for my armour, but before I spend fate to reroll the die?

>> You can cast it as required. Period

Can I cast Healing when someone announces to cast the Command spell? Can I cast Healing after someone rolled the die for the Command spell?

>> yes

L) I was asking this, because in the following thread, there is something as being too late, which makes me wonder when the last moment is that you are not too late:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=129&efcid=1&efidt=124054

It raises some questions because, say I have a Helmet, and I lose a battle against a creature. I'm not dead yet, since my Helmet can still save me. Can I cast the Healing spell then?

If I don't have a Helmet, can I still wait until I know who wins the fight before I cast my Healing spell? If not, that could give the Helmet (and similar cards) a hidden benefit.

I messed up the quotes bigtime. Hope it's a little clear now.

Still, thanks a lot for your time, Warlock!

No problem, I liked thinking out the answers. In a game like Talisman, answers are often forgotten and clarifications messed up after a long time that they've never shown up.

Thels said:

I admit I'm not 100% sure on this. See also the reply by Velhart, who says that these Followers are "Followers towards the Minstrel/Ghoul" but not "Followers towards the other Characters". I do not like this interpretation because it allows strange things like the Ghoul using Preservation Spell on them (is it legal? who knows). I hope that this could receive official clarification in a FAQ, because I cannot find the discussions anymore.

I can't give the right answer on this one. I only suggest that you don't consider them Followers by any means; it simplifies a lot of things.

Thels said:

The Minstrel has a situational ability if compared to the Sorceress'. He's not overpowered if in one game out of 100 he has the chance to get both Maiden and Princess from another Character. I think nobody cared to ask this question simply because is a greatly unprobable event, also in the base game without expansions.

Thels said:

You were right in seeing a problem with this. As per current FAQ, if you encounter a Character on the Cursed Glade you're not affected by that Space. But it's also true that a Character that encounters the Cursed Glade suffers the penalty until he leaves the space. You can't use Spells or Magic Objects, since you're an attacked Character who previously encountered the space, while the attacker can use everything since he encounters you and not the space. Better avoid such a situation.

Of course you're right about the Spell, if Craft drops under 3 you have to discard it.

Thels said:

It doesn't matter what you've rolled before. You always make a new roll. It works like this for all spaces on the Talisman board, including the Inner Region. Do you assume that you can automatically cross the Crypt or Dice with Death again, since you've rolled good the first time? If you turn back to the Plain of Peril, you encounter all the spaces again like you've never been there before.

Thels said:

This can be done, if you think it's useful. Characters who need a Raft to cross the river won't pose an immediate threat to a Character in the Inner Region. I was only saying that you can't do better tricks such as buying the only Raft to prevent others from acquiring/building it for the remainder of the game (this is the reason why you can't carry a Raft).

Thels said:

Well, you'd better not travel to the Chasm, there's nothing to find there.

Thels said:

The answer from Elliott refers only to the Raft card inside the Adventure deck. If you're not able to take it or don't want to take it, you leave it face up on the space.
For the raft you build in the Woods, let's look in the Rulebook:

Rafts
(...)
Any character in a Woods or Forest space at the start of his
turn who has an Axe may declare that he is building a Raft for that
move. Instead of moving, the character takes a Raft Card from
the Purchase deck (if available) .

(...)

A Raft can never be left behind or taken along to be used on a future turn. Whether or not it is used,
it must be placed on the Adventure Card discard pile or back with the Purchase deck
after the character has either used it or decided not to do so.

I added enphasis to the sentence that matter for your issue. You "take the Raft Card from the Purchase Deck" and this means that you acquire the Object immediately. You need room in the inventory to keep the Raft, otherwise it is discarded immediately.

You'll find more info about rafts in this thread:
http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=129&efcid=1&efidt=93214&efpag=0#94007

Thels said:

According to the paragraph in the rulebook, you take the Raft Card "if available". I think you can effectively skip a turn with this trick.

Thels said:

If the Bag of Gold is a face-up card (it becomes a face-up card if left on a space; this could happen because of an Event), then you can target it with Destruction. IIRC, Destruction is a "start of turn" Spell, not a "cast as required" Spell.

Thels said:

This is not so easy to explain. Rules allow you to do what you want with Objects at any time (put them in and out of a Concealed Pouch, turn into Gold with the Alchemist, ditch them), but it was clarified you can do this only before the intention to take a specific Object is declared. The gameplay in Talisman usually doesn't allow enough time to react properly and for this reason many players complain that there's no specific timing and a yelling competition instead. I would tell them this is Talisman, not a strategic boardgame. If a Character casts Acquisition on you the only chance you have is to Counterspell or Reflect it. Otherwise it takes effect and you can't do nothing. Ditching the Amulet to cast Counterspell is a 100% legal reaction.

Thels said:

The only limitation in Healing is: if you're losing your last Life (after all Fate, Armor and protective Spells proved to be ineffective), you can't cast Healing because you come down to zero Lives and you're dead. If you have 2 Lives and you're losing a Life, no problem in casting Healing at any moment (before or after rolling a die).

Thanks a lot again for the time spent on your replies. It's been most appreciated.

Some of these answers do quite surprise me, I must say.

>>The_Warlock said:

>>>>Thels said:

I'm going to side with Velhart on this one. There is a thread here about the Ogre Chieftain being able to use monster followers in the Cell in the Dungeon, implying that special followers for the Chieftain, Mintrel, and Ghoul do follow all Follower effects. http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=129&efcid=1&efidt=399836&efpag=0#401272 Regarding Preservation, the text on the spell specifically prevents a Follower from being killed which won't prevent it from being discarded in other ways.

>>The_Warlock said:

>>>>Thels said:

>>>> I carry the Amulet when another character casts a spell, which I want to Counterspell. Can I drop the Amulet on the space I am at to cast the Counterspell spell

>>This is not so easy to explain. Rules allow you to do what you want with Objects at any time (put them in and out of a Concealed Pouch, turn into Gold with the Alchemist, ditch them), but it was clarified you can do this only before the intention to take a specific Object is declared. The gameplay in Talisman usually doesn't allow enough time to react properly and for this reason many players complain that there's no specific timing and a yelling competition instead. I would tell them this is Talisman, not a strategic boardgame. If a Character casts Acquisition on you the only chance you have is to Counterspell or Reflect it. Otherwise it takes effect and you can't do nothing. Ditching the Amulet to cast Counterspell is a 100% legal reaction.

I very much dislike this ruling. It is a specific exception that applies to a single card, and I think that goes against the very nature of a board game. This is Talisman, not Card Game: The Subtitling. If you can ditch one object in response to a spell being cast you should be able to ditch any object in response to any spell being cast. Are Counterspell and Reflect the only spells you can do this with? Can I ditch the Amulet and cast Restoration to prevent another player from being killed by a Fireball? What about so I can Hyda Spell a Healing/Teleport/whatever? Misfortune on a spell with a die roll? If you allow exceptions for only the Amulet and only for specific spells you are going to have to justify why other scenarios don't get an exception. I say let them ditch any objects/followers/gold they want in response to the spell being announced, but the spell shouldn't be targetted against a specific object or follower until everyone is done ditching objects. If the character with the Amulet and Counterspell wants to counter Aquisition, I would say that they have to ditch the Amulet before the specific item is targetted. Of course, this is entirely theoretical, as a character with the Amulet can't be targetted by Aquisition per the FAQ.

PS I hate this forum software: I've tried editing this 5 or 6 times now and I can't make the quote boxes work right.

Daefaroth said:

Ok, so cards that become "Followers" to a Character only are Followers for him and are considered Followers for any purpose by that Character only. If he's forced to lose Followers, those "Followers" are affected. If one of those Followers is killed (i.e. Chasm) he can be saved with Preservation.

Daefaroth said:

I don't think you understood correctly, my examples were only related to Objects and I wasn't telling that there's any exception with Amulet ditching/spellcasting. Of course you can ditch the Amulet at any time to cast any Spell, provided it has a valid target. The point that I was trying to make is: you can't cast Spells that make an already casted Spell illegal. The only Spell that cancels another Spell before it takes effect is Counterspell, with Reflection acting the same way but reflecting on the caster.

In your examples I don't see any problem. Restoration does not cancel Fireball, it cancels its effect, so cast it freely. An example of an incorrect action is: a Character attacks your Character, battle is engaged, attacker casts Psionic Blast, you cast Invisibility to Evade him (whether or not you ditch the Amulet here is irrelevant, you can do it when you wish). Your opportunity to Evade has expired when you accepted to engage battle, thus you cannot Evade making Psionic Blast useless. Another situation: attacker casts Marked for Glory to add 6 to the die roll, you cast Freeze to prevent him rolling the die in combat. This does not work, Marked for Glory acts on a die roll, if you don't roll the die you cannot cast this Spell. Since the Spell is cast before Freeze, it can't be vanified like this.

Moreover, if someone casts Acquisition you can't ditch all Objects and make yourself an invalid target. Same will happen when someone claims an Object after winning a combat. I assume Rules allow you to ditch/alchemize Objects until the taken Object is declared, provided you leave at least one Object to take. I personally dislike this possibility and in my games we don't allow to do anything with the stuff if someone claims Objects or Followers with a Spell/Ability or after combat.

Yeah, tell me about the forum software. Quoting quotes within quotes is horrifying if you want to make adjustments.

And whoah, you guys are taking ditching of items to a whole new level. The way I thought it would go is:

A player announces that he's casting a spell. He tosses the spell face up on the table, and announces his target.

Other players have the option to cast interrupt type spells only (Counterspell and Reflection).

Unless Counterspelled, the spell now takes effect. Die rolls are made if required (Command, Random). Players may now cast spells like Preservation to prevent the damage applied by the spell, etc...

So basically I thought you should only be able to cast Counterspell or Reflection directly in reaction to the original spell being cast and a target being determined. You cannot at that moment discard an item. Other than the 2 Interrupt type spells, Talisman is a Queue based game, which means:

Player A announces he casts a spell and the target of the spell.

Player B announces he drops the Amulet on the ground.

Player A's action goes first. The spell takes effect.

Then Player B's action goes in effect. His Amulet moves from his character sheet to the space it occupied.

Only now is Player B able to cast Counterspell, but since Player A's spell already went into effect, it can no longer be Counterspelled.

So that's what I thought. But if the Warlock is right, and discarding items like that also works in a Stack based method, then that changes everything around.

The Spell timing... a neverending story that always calls for "Stack vs. Queue" discussion. Have a look here below and we'll talk later.

A long thread about Spell timing:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

Start of turn Spells:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

A clarification about the Marked for Glory/Freeze:

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

Reflection Spell (= Counterspell):

www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp

There's more if you care to search the forum.

The_Warlock said:

Well, yes. That's how the Talisman system works. You cast a spell, you resolve it before anything else can be done (with the exception of interrupt spells).

The_Warlock said:

Uhm, I'm not exactly guessing that. It sounds like people are thinking that if you cast a "Skip a turn" spell fast enough, you can prevent characters like the Sage from drawing their start of the turn spell. But then, if you check this thread:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=129&efcid=1&efidt=518361

It is clearly stated that the Warlock/Sage/Magus can only cast spells after their "Draw spells at the start of your turn" ability. I would assume that means that other players can only cast spells after as well.

The_Warlock said:

I don't know the exact wording of either spell.

The_Warlock said:

Hmm, interesting.

Still, your reasoning about the Amuler doesn't seem to be in line with what I read in the other posts. The idea I had, and still get from all the other threads is:

When Player A casts a spell and picks a target, Player B can do nothing but cast either Counterspell or Reflection. Only once the spell is going into effect can other actions be performed.

The "I can drop the Amulet so I can cast the Counterspell" idea is entirely a Stack based reasoning, a la M:tG, and I was hoping that only the Counterspell and Reflection were acting Stack based and everything else in the game Queue based (Maybe with the exception of Preservation, which interrupts before the damage is actually applied). That would keep things nice and simple.

When Player A casts a spell and picks a target, Player B can do nothing but cast either Counterspell or Reflection. Only once the spell is going into effect can other actions be performed.

This is how we play it anyway. When a spell is cast, it´s effect immediately takes place, unless counterspell or reflection is cast of couse. No stacking, or "last in first out" exist when casting spells in talisman.

Best regards

The Wizard said:

But what about the original issue with the Amulet. Would wearing the Amulet prevent you from using Counterspell or are you able to quickly drop the Amulet and cast Counterspell?

I was inclined to think the former, but it seems the Warlock is saying it's the latter.

Yes! and he is usually right, but i don´t like the idea of someone casting a spell, and then the other character is able to perform several actions before the spell actually has its effect. As i see it, a spell´s effect takes place the moment it is cast. But then again, you may ditch objects at any time so..

Regards

Thels said:

It looks like you don't know these Characters that are from expansions. They share the ability to draw Spells at the start of their turn. The thread you're quoting was about when do they draw and when do they cast. FAQ says that they draw at the beginning and CAN cast the Spell(s) in the following Turn; in other words, the Rulebook statement that you can cast max the no. of Spells you had "at the start of your turn" is applied to these Characters after they draw Spells.

Another character can cast a Spell that negates their Turn; there's the Lighting Bolt from Highlands, but there's also Time Steal from Frostmarch or Immobility from base game. If they're cast at the beginning of a Character's turn, they don't get the chance to use the ability.

Thels said:

As I said, dropping the Amulet can be done at any time. In Talisman you don't have to see actions neither as a queue nor as a stack. There are only rules to be followed. Carefully read the card texts, stick to them and clarify something only when it generates an unclear game issue.

I don't have so many problems when playing Spells in Talisman; once you've understood that a Spell (or an action) can't make the an already played Spell invalid or ignore that it has been played (= you do things as the Spell is not there), it's nice and simple too.

Remember that a queue system will make a lot of Spells useless. An example? You already mentioned Preservation. What about Toadify from Frostmarch (roll a die: 1=caster becomes a Toad, 2-3 no effect; 4-6 target becomes a Toad) that can be completely reversed by a Misfortune Spell from Sacred Pool played in response (a die roll become a 1 and cannot be re-rolled)? Note that the second Spell doesn't make the first illegal, it viciously alters the outcome as it's supposed to do. It's possible to do this, while it's not possible for the target Character to cast Spells that have no relationship with what is happening. For example, if I'm struck by Toadify I cannot cast Healing or Psionic Blast and after that discover if I become a Toad and can still cast Spells. If you have something that acts on the played Spell, use it if needed, otherwise solve the Spell and go on with the game.

I think all those questions come over and over again, because people are not used to play with fuzzy rules like these. They want either stack or queue. Talisman is more "as required" or "as appropriate", but it's not overly difficult to establish what to do in each case.

The_Warlock said:

I know the Sage's ability. I assumed the Warlock and Magus' abilities work the same.

Still, if I understand the post, when Player B is the Sage, it works like this:

Player A announces that he's done. Player B's turn starts.

Player B checks if he is allowed to draw any spells at the start of his turn due to the Sage's ability.

Player B counts the number of spells he has, which determines the number of spells

Player B can now cast "At the start of your turn" spells.

Player B rolls the die for movement or uses other methods to move.

The only thing not in there is the option for Players A and C to cast spells at the start of other players' turns. Immobility for example states that the player can do nothing this turn.

The_Warlock said:

Yeah, so QUEUE might actually be incorrect. When you do something, you resolve it, bar effects that are clearly meant to interrupt (Counterspell/Reflection interrupt a Spell, Preservation interrupts a life being lost or an Enemy or Follower being killed, Misfortune interrupts a die roll).

The Healing spell can be cast as required. If I am wounded, that basically means any time, am I right?

You mention that dropping the Amulet can also be done at any time.

So I first say, I cast the Healing spell and target myself.

You then say, I drop my Amulet.

Now, if I follow your logic, the Amulet arrives on the board before the Healing spell goes into effect, since apparently, you're still able to Counterspell my Healing spell, while an action that has been started later has already been completely resolved.

Any way I look at that, that's a Stack way of looking at things.

You could very well be right, you've been around here quite a while from what I understand. The outcome just surprises me.

Regarding the Immobility Spell vs. Sage:

If player A casts Immobility on the Sage at the start of the Sage's turn, his turn ends immediately before the Sage can activate the text on his card to draw a Spell.

However if the Sage had already gained a Spell by activating the text on his card, player A cannot cast Immobility on the Sage, as it is no longer the start of his turn.

Regarding the Sage ability vs. the amount of Spells that may be cast during a turn:

If the Sage starts his turn by gaining a Spell, he may still cast 1 Spell during his turn due to the fact that his special ability to gain a Spell overrides the basic rule of only being able to cast the amount of Spells that you start your turn with. In otherwords the Sage is considered to have a Spell at the start of his turn before applying the spellcasting rule to his turn.

Ell.

Regarding the Immobility Spell vs. Sage:

If player A casts Immobility on the Sage at the start of the Sage's turn, his turn ends immediately before the Sage can activate the text on his card to draw a Spell.

However if the Sage had already gained a Spell by activating the text on his card, player A cannot cast Immobility on the Sage, as it is no longer the start of his turn.

Regarding the Sage ability vs. the amount of Spells that may be cast during a turn:

If the Sage starts his turn by gaining a Spell, he may still cast 1 Spell during his turn due to the fact that his special ability to gain a Spell overrides the basic rule of only being able to cast the amount of Spells that you start your turn with. In otherwords the Sage is considered to have a Spell at the start of his turn before applying the spellcasting rule to his turn.

Ell.

So if I understand you correctly, play goes in this order:

Player A ends his turn. It's now Player B's turn.

Players A, C and D can cast spells at the start of player B's turn, that make player B skip a turn.

Player B draws a spell from the Sage ability, if eligible.

Player B counts the number of spells he has at this very moment, which determines the number of spells he can cast during this turn.

Player B can now cast "At the start of your turn" spells.

Player B rolls the die for movement.

Thanks for the answer. :-)

talismanamsilat said:

So, if I am playing as the Sage if I make sure that I never have a spell at the beginning of my turn, then I can never be the target of Immobility or any other "at the start of their turn" type spells? I thought that the "start" of ones turn only ended once they move their character. If I were to use the rule above as a precedent then only one action is allowed to take place at the start.

In the above scenario, lets say that the Sage drew a spell that can has the text "cast at the start or your turn". Would the Sage not be able to cast this spell until his next turn?

The Wizard said:

I don't think you are allowed to ditch objects when it is not your turn, if you allow this then what is preventing you if you lose a combat against another character to ditch your items so that he can't take one for his reward? Same thing if the character can take one of your follower. We play it that if you have the amulet then you cannot cast spells, so if you are planning to cast a spell you must ditch the amulet when it is your turn then cast your spell.

Mattousai said:

The sage can cast his spell.

The only difference is that his abillity goes first, before he cast (start of his turn spells)

(But other players can cast immobilty at the start of the sage's turn.The sage can not using his ability then, because he must skip his turn before he can do anything)

frogemoth said:

The rulebook says you may ditch objects and followers at any time (P16) If you want to ditch your objects after you lose a combat, you´ll have to do it before the other player claim his reward. You cannot, of couse, ditch an object the other player has already claimed as a reward. That would result in an illegal move.

Best regards

That will not work for us, we have enough heated discussion already. I find this rule very strange, for example I know that a player want to attack me to take one of my items, as soon as he land on me and declare that he his attacking me I could simply ditch all my items or the item he wants and he will be forced to take a life from me instead. I prefer that you cannot ditch anything unless it is your turn, make things much simpler and less prone to fit of rage