What would entail a full Crusade to bring the Expanse fully under the heel of the Imperium? I mean, the Crusade to the Jericho Reach already has to cross the Koronous Passage to get to the Warp Gate to get to the Reach, so why not a full Crusade to take the Expanse? Who would lead such a thing? Who would (besides lots of rich Rogue Traders) be resistant to such a thing? There seems to be plenty of raw materials enough to warrant nationalization so that materials could be used to fuel other conquests.

They already tried that. Ever hear of the Margin Crusade? The Margin Crusade was intended to bring the Koronus expanse into the fold, but it failed miserably. (It exists now only on paper because the powers that be in the Imperium don't want the public to know the truth about the Achilus Crusade into the Jericho reach. The resources earmarked for the "Margin Crusade" are, in fact, going through the gate to Jericho.)

So, I suspect the Imperium simply does not have the resources. The Jericho Reach is proving a tough nut to crack indeed, and they already lost one crusade into the Expanse. Do you really want to open another Crusade on another front before the first one succeeds? If the Imperium manages to pummel Jericho into submission, then Koronus is the obvious next target. But, until then, I suspect the Koronus Expanse will be the sandbox for a whole mess of Rogue Traders.

Cheers,

- V.

Well, I do agree that all available resources in the nearby sectors are already being funnelled into the Achilus Crusade in the Reach. Its unlikely there's enough man power to spare for a Koronus Crusade...although if the RTs banded together they could probably manage something almost akin to it.

However, I disagree that the Margin Crusade was an attempt to subdue the Koronus expanse. I recall reading that the Arch-Confessor who had sparked the Margin Crusade directed them towards a series of worlds somewhere else in the Halo Stars. I can't recall exactly where, and I don't have access to my books at the moment, but I'm quite sure the target was not Koronus.

Logically, this also makes sense. The Margin Crusade is a pretty recent affair after all (and on paper its still on-going even), and having so vast an imperial force in Koronus would be commented and described in the setting material. Since there is made mention of no worlds conquered by the Margin Crusade or details about the Crusade's forces anywhere in the Expanse I think we can assume the Margin Crusade never came anywhere near Koronus. There would also be no way to cover up the failure of such an endeavor from the nearby Calixis sector.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Margin Crusade (or its remnants) turn out to be opponents in Black Crusade though. The Screaming Vortex is vast and it could border on the section of space invaded the Margin Crusade. It would certainly be a great BC campaign possibility.

Margin Crusade is supposed to be in the Halo stars, not the expanse.

But yeah: it makes no sense to have another crusade in the expanse when all the nearby sectors are being taxed for the Achillus crusade already.

Well the question isn't so much if they had done a Crusade or would/can they. But who would lead? Who would resist?

Would the current commander of Battlefleet Koronous get the nod? Would they just hand the reins to Lord Winterscale (or rather, would he lobby for such a thing should he discover it since he already considers the Expanse to be his domain anyways)

Now on the resistance side...the most obvious threats would be the Chaos Reavers and the ton of Orks in the region, but what of the Rogue Traders who have been plying the area for generations and becoming rich? Would any of them turn coat over their resources becoming nationalized? If Lord Winterscale isn't in command of the push to lead the area after it's conquest, would he be the one to work to bring the Crusade effort to a grinding halt?

Badlapje said:

would they you ask: see the above.

The resources of the Imperium are vast, essentially unlimited if you simply count troops and small arms, tanks and planes. If you want another crusade in the area, and there is sufficient reason, one can happen. If the resources have to come from far away so be it. Do it. If there isn't a good reason, it won't happen. There are vast swathes of the Imperium that haven't seen war in centuries but still can be taxed more to provide for military ventures further off. Also, the Crusade could be 'private' or financed by the Imperium yet accomplished by Rogue Traders under their own Charters.

bobh said:

Logistics (a big deal in the Imperium, as everything needs to happen on such a vast scale) are more complex over long distances - it's why campaigns tend to draw from nearby sources first and foremost. As a result, a Crusade into the Koronus Expanse would be drawn from the Calixis, Ixaniad and Scarus sectors predominantly due to relative ease of access.

Beyond that, is politics. Several highly-placed, highly-influential individuals in the Calixis Sector have a vested interest in the Koronus Expanse, who aren't going to be willing to see a Crusade into territory they've got their eye on claimed by others from further away, and they're important enough that they can hinder proposals of a Crusade moving up the chain until they're good and ready. To be honest, I imagine that there's a group of powerful men and women in the Calixis Sector who are already planning a Crusade into the Koronus Expanse... they're just not ready to go ahead with proposing it to the High Lords (the only individuals who can declare a Crusade).

I start the ball rolling towards a bit more of a ground swell of support for a crusade in my game, just subtle hints like having more preachers on the streets of footfall, I was having the majority of the cardinals start to push for a crusade into the Expanse to finish the work fo Drussus. Even then that was more of a movement than a crusade and was only the fist indication that would take decades to come to fruition.

Some people/groups that will be interested I think would include:

Lord Sector Marrius Hax, he's made sure the Koronus expanse is politically tied to the Calyxis Sector. He seems to big a big fan of order and I imagine he's happy slowly having the Expanse tamed by the rogue traders rather than another crusade drawing more reasources from his Sector. I imagine unless there was some interest that could be sorted out he would largely be against a crusade right now. Check out the privateer alternate rank fluff for an example of how useful the expanse is to him... he's having the trade wars of the calixis sector moved to the expanse, it's in into the storm.

Cardinal Fortis, Shepherd of the Black, he's the Cardinal in charge of the periphery and he's be a logical choice for someone to get onside as he works closely with the missionary galaxia and is a man of no little influence himself. He's got a cruiser as his base of operations! He might lend political and influential support as well as his ship if he could gain political or secular power.

House Krin- They do bankroll a lot of operations in the Expanse so if they thought the crusade would sour their investments they might apply political pressure to resist it. If it meant overall higher profits they might lend support and put their money where their mouth is.

Drussians- Drussian Adherents who wish to continues Saint Drussus crusade would likely lend support.

The Inquisition- With the many factions will be both for and against, Istvaanians and Monodominants will likely put lots of backing into such movements,

The Cold Trade- A bunch of armed soldiers running all over the place accompanied by commissars and stormtroopers... this could be bad for business.

I'd see rogue traders being divided in opinion, for some it might be an opportunity to get into a position to become Lord Sector of the new sector, a nice retirement plan. Some might want to safeguard their own holdings and get involved in the leadership of the campaign to do so.

These are some of the groups and people I could think of off the top of my head.

Interesting thread to me as i'm currently GMing a campaign where the players are trying to start a crusade, although IMS the jericho reach crusade hasn't yet happened and this is what they are trying to start.

They've got some very powerful allies in the Imperial Navy who are pushing this at segmentum level and the players are basically trying to get the Calixis sector onboard.

I've split the campaign into 7 endeavours (making up one big meta endeavour).

1) Rally the mechanicus

2) Rally the church

3) Rally the Astartes

4) Rally 6 powerful and influential individuals

5) rally the rogue trader community and explore the area near the gate in the reach

6) Rally the nobility

7) create a Trigger event to generate massive public support.

They've already managed to complete the ad mech endeavour (split into convincing various major forge worlds to increase production, help a mechnicus fleet to finish off the remains of the meritech clans (and by so doing both fulfill the mechanicus' vow to annihilate the tech-heretics and also free up the power mechanicus fleet to help in the crusade), and to conquer and completely strip the breakers yard in the expanse, looting it of all its ship hul, spare parts etc.

They are about to complete the rally the church part, to do this they've had to support the more militant arms of the church (Drusians, reemptionists) while weakening the more conservative groups (thorians). They funnelled huge amounts of resources into the varous drusian cults and redemptionists and are now moving to assassinate a very powerful malfian nobleman who is a major supporter of the thorian cults.

Given that the astartes are seen as holy warriors, somewhat akin to angels, by the proletariat, they aim to recruit as many chapters of marines as possible. IMS there are four chapters with a presence in the calixis sector, one of which they've had favourable dealings with in the past. They'll have to do a couple of "Quests" for some of the chapters, while suppyling and supporting others will be sufficient.

For the powerful individuals, I've got Lord Krin, Lord Hax, Sector Head of the Departmento Munitorum Elias Burr, the sectors top clergyman, Cardinal Artur Wolsey, Lady Chorda or Alexi Winterscale (IMS the two biggest rogue trader dynasties, with Chorda having the edge), and rear Admiral Maria Vass, a defensively minded naval officer of great renown who believes a crusade would weaken the Calixis sectors defence unnecessarily. They've convinced Vass and Lady chorda so far.

The rogue trader community they largely bought with access to a stable warp gate the PCs found ages ago. They've cleverly parked a space station at one end and have the navy patrolling the other so only ships flying under their flag can safely pass. The gate takes a few hours to traverse and leads from the expanse to the Calixis sector, bypassing entirely the horror that is the Maw. Its only large enough for cruisers, at most, to get through.

The nobility they'll have to get onboard, largely by convincing them that they will make lots of money. This will probably involve they securing backing from one house for an expedition into the reach, when they return with tales of treasure and the house makes lots of money, the other nobles will all want a slice of the pie.

Finally for the trigger event, they don't know it yet, but a mad seer has been pestering people for ages about the last known location of the great rogue trader and inquisitor (and general all round genocidal maniac) Kobras Acquaire. With Crusade in the air, a bunch of clergy will ask the PCs to find Acquaires last resting place so that it can become a pilgramage site. Little do they know they'll find the Son of Seth, Acquaires flagship. The restoration, repair and return of the Son of Seth will be used as a signal that the Emperor himself wants the Calixis sector to continue on with Acquaires agenda (kill or conquer everyone outside the Imperium).

My PCs are great at making enemies, so some of the resistance will come from them, most of the powerful people they have to convince are those doing very well indeed out of the status quo and won't want to upset the apple cart. Some can be convinced, others will need to be removed.

I've decided that all the work to start the crusade outside the sector (i.e. in segmentum command and on Holy Terra itself) is being done by their powerful allies. When the crusade is officially launched, Battlefleet Calixis will be in the vanguard but the bulk of the fleet and forces will come from elsewhere, the warmaster will be appointed from Terra ad will be someone they've never heard of. This should prove a great source of tension as they'll then have to chafe under his leadership.

That Warp Gate changes everything when it comes to crusading in the Expanse. It also puts a target on the players and the Imperial Navy for should the Crusade falter at any stage and the momentum seize up? Parties will want to make sure that Warp Gate is secured for themselves. It shows for your players' good relations with the Imperial Navy that they hadn't been killed to keep them silent about the Gate and claim it for themselves. It'd be similar to a side bar in the core rules that mentioned that some Rogue Trader had announced finding an intact STC database and was killed to the last for it.

Warp Gate aside, that is a huge political undertaking. Though of course, aside from being the Emperor himself and saying "We go there", everything would have to be such a thing to get all heads turned.

The fact that the Faceless Lord roams the Expanse and the threat of whatever can come out of the Screaming Vortex would make Chaos a dark threat to counter. Though...once the Orks are ready to begin their Waaaugh? A small raider ship could slip in, shoot some things, and run screaming to lead the Orks straight to Iniquity for a showdown between the Orks and Chaos. The Orks won't mind the fighting, even as Karrad Vall goes ballistic over his plans being set back so far.

I think organizing a Crusade into the Koronus Expanse is a perfect backdrop for a huge meta-endeavour.