My current deck runs only 6 real attacks and they are currently high plasma beam and sardine beach special, and I was contemplating using tiger fury, but I really don't need it and feel fine just using 6 attacks to finish off my opponent. I was thinking about how all these attacks have the potential to easily hit over 10-15 damage each. Is there any other attack string or symbol that can just easily finish off an opponent in 1-2 hits?

Now people may disagree with me, but I'm not too fond of earth's foundations in a competitive meta, which is why I would turn to something like order, evil, or death depending on the character. Is evil the new fire of the block 3 where you can use a low number of attacks and just finish off people in 2-3 hits in a similar fashion to CSS deck of the old meta?

sir_shajir said:

I am using Chaos for my kill condition what character are you thinking of using?

Scubadude said:

I was using Kyoshiro, I was using fire kick as my finisher, but I found SBS more consistant as I don't have to rely on LotM/Dancing Battle Kebuki for momentum nor do I have to randomly attack with other attacks just to build up momentum. I found that it fuels up the following HPB as it's enhance forces me to commit 3 cards and increasing the damage on HPB easily.

The order deck that I currently use just use SBS and hack to kill my opponents and quick just kills them afterwards wit HPB's aswell. I was wondering if anyone is currently killing the same way as me. Or is everyone still see Feline Spike and defender loops as the only viable way of killing people.

I am using neo raging storm in my check I would consider trying it in your order deck if you can get some .

Yeah i have a couple of those, and I was wondering weather i should use em instead. I do like the 3 check, I would probably have to change teh attack line up to something like 2-3 mega spike/Orbital Cluster bombs, 3 HPB, 3 N R S, and 3 kuzureppa to support being able to pay NRS, and on top of that, I'm not sure if I would be able to run Seal of Cessation. NRS needs at least 10-12 attacks in the deck, which seems real high to me for a control deck.

sir_shajir said:

I run 13 attacks in mine it seems to work out ok for the most part thus far but its just so good if you can generate momentum and push it through .

Do you run seals and if not, don't you find that you need them to remain competitive as they really help in situations where you don't have any answers. Cause I really try hard to remain between 12-15 three checks in my decks now a days. But if you don't run CoS then that would explain how you keep your numbers tuned.

"Evil the new fire"? I think you have their roles reversed, actually - Fire was only used for the kill (CSS), while Evil was the control base. Evil doesn't have the attack base at the moment. Earth CERTAINLY does, though.

NRS really only needs two other attacks in the entire deck - 3 NRS, 3-4 Kuzuryu Reppa, and 3-4 High Plasma Beam keeps your total attack count low (maximum of 11), and you can simply play the Multiple on Kuzu to satisfy the requirement on NRS. Each is also a kill card in its own right, and it leaves room for Seal as well.

But to answer your original question - Earth is a very solid contender for something like this, but I'm afraid that Air/Good/Water keeps more in line with the CSS mentality of the mid-season of '08, because Feline Spike is, quite simply, the most efficient, effective way of causing massive damage to the opponent in very short order. I think Earth and Order are probably the next best contenders, as Tiger Fury, Fire Kick, High Plasma Beam, Kuzuryu Reppa, NRS, and Sonic Boom EXTRA are all exceptional kill cards.

However...Ryu's Shin Shoryuken is not to be underestimated, nor Military Discipline; basically, players would do well to keep them in mind when it comes to massive damage potential.

Yeah, that was a typo, what I meant was is Earth the new fire. I'll keep in mind that attack run that you mentioned. I guess I can keep my mega spikes sideboard vs decks that use destiny, as I'm kind of paranoid about keeping that card off the staging area because I run 12 hack cards (brt, forethought, anti k'), which is one of the primary reason I run Mega Spike in the 1st place. Yeah I'll probably try that string as I think Loki_5k suggested that to me in person the other day as well.

as far as atacks earth, feline spike, ryu's shin shuruken, and order are the best (as already stated.) water, chaos, and void are also pretty solid. and if you wanna go broken, linx tail.

sir_shajir said:

No I dont because i run adapt and i run laynettes to copy opposing problems so far i havent had an issue with the various other control options i have but we will see how set 12 impacts everything .

Everyone on this thread who things earth dosent have a solid foundation base is taking crazy pills

I mean this

Earth is brutal

Evil/Earth the new Fire? Thats going pretty lengthy... I like Earth's new attacks since they actually have a decent kill card, cough cough Fire Kick. There foundation base is not bad, just the flavour seems to have changed, which I don't like.

Duel symbol wise, not really. Since I know your current deck list and since we had this discusion kinda before, you don't nessessarily need SBS, it just suits your decks play type better. Plus I think your forgetting that almost all symbols have kill cards now, its just that some of the symboles don't exactly have flexibility on how to play them, thus deck building has become a little bit more difficult, and as of now, not really that unique except when it comes to new players, which is awsome and sad at the same time...

Personally, if your looking for kill cards with duel symbols for a finisher, your looking at good, Feline Spike, Spinning Beat, 125 Rapids of Rage, Ryu's "Shiney Upper", Exploding Death, Darkness Blade, Hand Stand Kick, Galactica Phantom, and Diving Wind Kick Throw, just to name a few. What's interesting is that good practically covers about eight to ten symbols which can be used for finishes and more or less for duel symbol attack strings.

Also, um Scubadude, I have read some of your posts and deck lists in the past about duel symbols and I was wondering if you could post some stuff like tips building them or what to look for. I am currently trying to come up with two decks, one which is Elena on Fire and Good, and the second Kyoshiro/Nagase which is Chaos/Order. um thanks!

Earth is ind33d probably the best symbol to splash a kill condition. With cards like High Plasma Beam, Tiger Fury, and the new Sardine Beach Special, I believe Earth is quite solid on offense.

I find that symbols such as Good and Void don't have really good kill conditions, but that's because nobody enhances them with Fight or Flight. I mean, Darkness Blade w/ Fight or Flight??

Shaneth said:

Feline Spike and Spinning Beat. Void on the other hand, you're totally right about. However, minus no answer to olcadan's, voids foundation base is one of the most solid and easily splashable I can think of. But yeah, Jivatma running an Evil/Void foundation base and killing with Tiger Fury and Fweem?

Earth Foudnations:

Will for the fight
Distractable
Ways Of Punishment
Glare From the Abyss
Blinding Rage
End it All
Inhuman Perception
Will of Iron
King of Fighters 2006
Revenant's Calling
Dancing Battle Kabuki

This list goes on for some time. I don't understand if earths attack base is supposedly so strong how people are failing to build off its foundation base which includes some of the best cards in the game right now.

^ You do realize only one person has openly stated that they weren't impressed by Earth's foundation base (and another who doesn't like the change in Earth's prerogative), right?

I'll also use this as one of the few times that I'll say "I told you so": I mentioned quite some time ago that Earth was going to be very, very good come block 3.

Also, another great Earth attack no-one's mentioned - Double Grounder. Dark Rending also sports a FANTASTIC ability, but that 7 difficulty makes it hard to really abuse =/

Shaneth said:

Kuzuryu Reppa is a wonderful finished on Void, and so is Sardine's Beach Special; the same holds true for Ryu's Shin Shoryuken and Sonic Boom EXTRA. Granted, the problem for them ultimately becomes a lack of momentum generation, but c'mon...it's not too hard to get Natural Leader, Lord of the Makai, etc., into a deck, particularly when you only need <5 momentum for your kill shot.

But yus. Every symbol has a kill card of SOME kind at this point. Whether or not they're truly reliable within a mono-symbol deck for that symbol remains to be seen.

But we can probably all agree that Earth is easily one of the best symbols to splash for a kill condition. It shares at least 1 symbol on its best kill cards with 8 other symbols (Death, Evil, and Good being the ones left by the wayside; if you want to count Gaishiki Lunar Rebellion and Reverse Flayer, however...).

Earth might be a good splashable symbol, but I think it's pretty solidly beaten out by Water and Good, which share Spike and Darkness Blade, also Good has Spinning Beat and Water has Lunar Slash.

I do agree that Earth has a strong foundation base though.

Earth has big cyclone. Big cyclone is block 3 legal. Weep openly

Navitude said:

Thanks dude that means a lot acutally scott interviewed me recently and a lot of my process can be found in my interview

http://www.mediafire.com/?oe3r02edl0e

I would love to do a write up but I just came down with a huge flu or fever thing so im not exactly able to write a article right now. But once my head doesnt feel like its in a vice I will write one up for you .

Protoaddict said:

the foundation base is good, not one of the best in the game. what makes it special is how many 0-2 difulty foundations there are. thats why hugo works. 4 hand sized chars need earth.

I have a Leona deck that can spam like 7 foundations turn one on earth. Not only do they have a ton of 0 drops, they have a ton of 6 checks. Leona or Kyoshiro can very easly spam foundations and then next turn WAP a hand away just to his someone with reverse flayer into Big cyclone and be able to protect it with distractable. One of earths best kept secrets right now is Iga Master mind you...

Also how is will for the fight not the greatest foundation ever

Fred... I'm want to steal that Leona idea for my area's first block 3 tournament in a two Mondays. Do you run Rejection for when you lose the coinflip?

Protoaddict said:

will for the fight is good, but yoga mastery would like to have a word with you. it doesn't like when other cards try to steal it's throne.

trane said:

?

will for the fight = tendon strength sort of...