How does one determine the defense value of a weapon and where might I find the rules for it in the core?

Nitai-rama said:

Not sure what you mean. Most weapons don't effect Attack or Defence. Shields have a bonus to Dodge and Block. Is that what you are referring to?

There is a place for the weapons defense on the character sheet that I have no idea how to fill in

I believe the weapon Attack and Defense are equal to your Attack and Defense, unless it has a bonus (+5 weapon would give +5 to Attack and Defense if your defense is Block, +10 weapon gives a +10, etc.) or it is a weapon you are unfamiliar with (which gives a -20, -40, or -60 depending on it's relation to your weapon.)

Nitai-rama said:

Its your Block with that weapon with all modifers added in such as proficiency, weapon quality etc.

Got it, thanks!

I've got another question about defense as a stat, this seemed to be the appropriate place to put it. Most things in the books reference a character's "defense" but near as I can tell there are two defenses. For example some martial arts require X attack (unarmed) and Y defense before you can learn them but then add to block or dodge. So when it references "defense" instead of block or dodge does that refer to the sum of the two? And further, if something requires mastery in defense is that a score of 200 in BOTH or just when they sum to 200? I've had the books for a year or so now and I can't find any indication.

Also, since this has to do with scores too, when something requires X attack (unarmed) does this imply that your unarmed attack score is different than your attack score with other weapons or does it just mean that you need to be trained in some kind of unarmed combat and have that much attack?

Thanks in advance.

Lets split this answer into parts,

1. In martial arts "defense" refers to the type of defense, block or dodge, you chose to be trained in. Because most characters only choose one (and in general it is a bad idea to train both) it is assumed at all times that "defense" refers to the type of defense you chose to train.

Although one of my players was wondering, he has 135 Block and 35 Dodge, if he increased his dodge to 40 would he gain another Martial Art even though it is not the defense he is trained in? I said no for now, but as that i'm new I thought I would get the opinion of the people here, any thoughts?

2. Mastery in a defense works on EITHER, not both or sum. If your block is 200 you have master in block, if your dodge is 200 you have mastery in dodge. If both are 200 you would have mastery in both, if one is 75 and the other is 125 (not sure how you would, but that's beside the point) you have mastery in neither.

3. Your unarmed attack score is different than other weapons. If you are trained in only unarmed you work with weapons at a -60 to base attack. If you work only with weapons you take a -60 to base unarmed attack. Much the same as training in a Bastard Sword means you have a -20 base attack on a Long Sword. Look at the weapon modules on page 56.

Lia has the right of it for that.

Lia- for the martial arts, it states in the book that for every 40 points that a player has in the sum of their attack and defense scores that they are allowed to train a single martial art. It is a little ambiguous, but the way I personally see it, is that it does allow them another martial art since they are training both block and dodge.

Alright, most of that makes sense, and that's kinda what I figured. I wasn't sure because some of the martial arts were specific i.e. "master of block" and some were defense. As for your answer regarding attack I knew about the penalty for being untrained in one and/or the other. I meant more what if "unarmed attack" were purchased as a weapon module rather than learning a martial art. It doesn't offer any benefits that the martial arts would but being able to fight without a weapon is a good idea anyway. I assume at that point it would use the same attack score as any melee weapons you were trained with, I just wanted to ask because I've never been clear on it personally.

I've had this conversation with my players because someone was trained with a cestus and though he should qualify for trained with unarmed too, which I shot down since that's only for fists and "unarmed" would at least imply enough brawling experience to do grabs and simple kicking. I guess my actual question is would you consider "unarmed attack" a weapon module trainable for generic barefisted fighting and would that then use the full attack score?

Also, some training in both defenses isn't a terrible idea since you can't always block and you can't always dodge and untrained is a big penalty.

1.To respond to that, yes the unarmed module will help you qualify for those requirements, and also counts for not taking a penalty when using it. Obviously, your damage output will be significantly lower than if you just took a martial art.

2. Training both defenses is actually detrimental at higher levels as you can just take the -60 penalty to use the other defense score as the other. IE: I can use block instead of dodge or vice versa. But however, also note that you will use the associated bonus from your other ability score as well. (agi for dodge and dex for block.)

Huh, I must have missed that rule. Anyway, I was more referring to situations where you simply can't dodge or block either because there's no room or because you can't get anything in the way, that may just have more to do with how I run games than anything else. Also, I've never really played the game beyond level 4 or 5, so scores were just clearing 100 except for extremely specialized characters.

Thank you for the help clarifying that stuff.