So I've made my choice and have decided to by the WFR Core Set. Glancing through thew player's guide real quick though, It did not seem like you could play a high elf wizard. Did I miss a career (it was a quick look through after all) or is it possible that such a career won't show up until a elf expansion set?

No there is no wizard career for elves right now. It could possibly show up in a future elf expansion but that could be way far off before we see that. You can check around the forum, there's someone that did propose a system to be able to play High Elves wizard

It seems to me like they're releasing race-specific box sets on their own time. I was a little disappointed myself that there wasn't any engineer-style careers, but the Black Fire Pass boxed set seems to include things involving 'dwarven technology and magic' and they talked a lot about making Rune Magic, so...

You didn't miss anything. The only race with playable Wizards is Human.

We *may* seem some support for Wood Elf "Tree-Singing" magic in a future suplements but, honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if the High Elf "True Magic" is relegated mostly to "fluff" material and not given much in the way of rules. Game balance issues, really. The magic of the High Elves is far beyond the infantile stumblings of Human Wizards. Besides that, very few Elf Wizards would likely leave Ulthuan for the ugly, forsaken lands of the Old World.

I'm not saying it *won't* happen in the new edition but I wouldn't count on it and, truthfully, I'm kinda hoping they leave it as something outside the realm of the PCs. Nothing could potentially do more harm to the "grim and perilous" tone of your Warhammer campaign than if you had a High Elf Archmage slumming around with your party.

Huh. I admit I'm sort of new to the Warhammer Fantasy side of things (I'm more of a 40k guy, and only played Warhammer Online: Age of Reckoning) so that's an interesting point to see.

Yeah. "True Magic" is a blending of all 8 of the Chaos Winds. In this case, the magic is more than just the "sum of its parts". It's not simply that Elf Wizards can wield all 8 individual Winds. The Elves weave the power of the Winds together and can achieve some fantastic things with it. When the Archmage Teclis (begrudgingly) taught Humans the "proper" way to channel the Winds of Chaos, it was his assessment that they simply did not have the inner strength to manipulate more than a single Wind without falling to corruption or being obliterated by the power. History has thus-far proven that he was pretty much right.

I let the wood elf in our group play a beast magician. With the dark magic talent... and one obligitory insanity.

Seeing as he played a straight-as-an-arrow high elf celestial wizard when we played second ed, it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

And you know what? I think elves should be allowed play wizards, at least high elf ones, it used to go that they were learning the winds one at a time. Hardly an issue of time when your an elf. I think they need magic, there it is.

I don't think they had Elf Wizards in the last edition either.

Did to, at the end of the wizard lord career they have the interesting side note:

A high elf who has finished this career is considered to have completed his minor magical apprenticeship and is ready to travel to the tower of hoeth to become a high mage.

Crazy Aido said:

All wonderful ideas! I celebrate GM-ownership of his campaign! Just think of the Elf Wizard as a "fledgling apprentice" who's too cool for school and takes his magical studies on the road!

Doc, the Weasel said:

The Apprentice Wizard from 2nd Edition could be Human or Elf and, like in the above example, was basically a fledgling who was just learning to fly. In that sense, they didn't have any special rules for the Elves. They could only wield a single Wind just like the Humans.

Crazy Aido said:

I do recall that! Essentially, completing the Wizard Lord career was the High Elf equivalent of a Human completing Apprentice Wizard.

:-)

Hmmm, it seems I'm still having trouble seperating the Warhammer Fantasy game from Warhammer Fantasy Role-play. I was thinking that like the wizards in the Armies Elves would still be limited in their spell selection such as Wood Elves only being able to choose Beasts or Life, and High Elves being the same in choice as humans.

I like several of the thoughts brought up, but there is one arguement I must address and that is by Bloody Sun Boy. You mention you don't see a High Elf Archmage traveling around in a party. I'd have to say the game itself counters this with the fact you can play a High Elf Swordmaster. A career that even in the regular lore of Warhammer these guys never leave their training grounds unless they are needed in a battle. Still though, I do find myself agreeing with you for the most part on a High Elf Archmage in a party it would seem...out of place given the traditional high elf views of all the races.

So going on with this discussion. Would it be fair/balanced to offer the Apprentice Wizard and Wizard advanced career to a high elf player or wood elf player (limited to life and beast winds) and simply rewrite flavor to match the characters schooling?

LizardMage said:

I see no problem with that, an elf would not be any better than a human at casting spells if they only took the same careers as humans, only the flavour would be different.

Maybe you could even let them buy different order cards with talent points, just as the Witch/Warlock careers can buy several winds for their Witchcraft-slot. Once the High Elf wizard has aquired that particular order-card they can buy spells from that order. That would make the High Elf wizards more diverse than their human counterparts, while not beeing "better" (as they doesn't have more spells, just from spells spread out on several orders and also have to spend experience on those order cards).

k7e9 said:

Agreed. Nothing wrong with allowing the Elves to pursue the Wizard careers if you want to allow it.

I think k7e9's idea is great. Allow the Elf Wizard to purchase new "Order" Talents just like regular Talents. Each new order unlocks a new list of spells that they can learn. Just like all Talents, if they want the benefit of a particular Order's special ability, they need to spend Maneuvers to swap their currently active Order. This obviously doesn't get into "True Magic" but it seems perfectly fine to represent the Elf as he pursues his magical apprenticeship. Once he has learned the ins and outs of several of the Winds, he is ready to return to Ulthuan to take his training to the next level.

Including the swordmaster as a career (and a basic career no less) may have been pushing it, but that's no reason to assume high elf loremasters are bimbling about the place killing stuff and taking it's treasure. Loremasters are much higher ranked than just about any career in a whfrp campaign is likely to reach. Unless such a game reaches epic level or some such, which it shouldn't.

I suggest you use the Hedge Magic rules for Elves. You can find them in the Witch's Song supplement. They allow a surprising amount of flexibility in using different winds. Tweak them just a little (like removing the restriction of only ever being able to take Rank 1 spells) and they should work just fine.

Crazy Aido said:

I wouldn't say any career pushes anything really. I can see Loremasters traveling around searching for a lost elven relic or as part of an envoy with a swordmaster or two in tow as bodyguards.

Any options that can be added that make sense should be added. What I mean by "make sense" is within the lore, and that actual traits of the setting. Take for example Lizardmen. There is no way within the setting that you can have a Saurus Warrior/Temple Guard PC or a Slann Mage Priest PC. The Mage Priests spend their entire time in meditation, with only a handful ever truly leaving the saftey of their temples to travel. Saurus Warriors and all their types pretty much just stand and wait to be needed to kill something. These just don't make for PC's I mean it would be a boring game that goes:

"Ok Jim what does your oldblood do?"

"Well are their any threats to my temple city?"

"No"

"Have I recieved word from any of the priests that I need to lead a group outside the city walls?"

"No"

"Ok, hm well I'll just stand on the temple ledge like I have for the last 500 years and stare out into the forest"

"Alright then."

That being said though, the lore does say that the Skinks go out of the cities and have mingled with some of the other races in a non-violent manner. Perhaps a Skink Scout or Priest would make sense as a PC then. It would be possible and can make sense to include careers/races that seem quite...high powered or out of place in a group that has a human and a dwarf. That will simply have to boil down the group itself to determine the nature of their game. If they want a strict adherence to the setting then it would be a hell of reason to have the Loremaster travel with a Troll Slayer and Rat-Catcher. Though, it would make sense for a Loremaster to travel with a Swordmaster and Phoenix Guard .

Like all RP games it does depend on the group and the GM. Hmmm, I seemed to have started steering my own discussion into a different area. I should probably stop.

Who says you should play a loremaster or archmage? Elfs need to learn magic to. Think of the empire as a place to learn some basic spells or Blessings of Isha! I would rule that they can learn all lorespells but without the order card bonus! And then maybe make some low rank high spells!