Hi, I got another question, and a problem with ballancing the game. I mean, I don't know how to understand the penalty of using this -20 to hit roll while the character is engaged in melee combat.

Let's say you have a combat shotgun, or autogun

At one point you get -20 while being engaded, but does the +30 bonus for point blank apply? Cause this way... after all the counting, you should still have +10? What is a bit strange for firing autogun in melee in full auto gives +30 for point blank, +20 for full auto -20 for shooting in Melee. In the end I'm still with +30 bonus or what? What's the sens of approaching into melee (cause basic ranged weapon can be used to parry...) if you can just blast a hole in your enemy even easier than if using a pro melee weapon. Weapon Skill in Melee gives no bonus in this case, while ranged weapon has at least +10, with much greater chance to score multiple hits.

So... how does it work?

YuriPRIME said:

For shooting while engaged in Melee (at your melee opponent)

You do not get the bonus for point blank.

Single Shots only.

Pistols only.

Uses BS.

For shooting into a melee (i.e. not engaged in melee shooting as someone who is)

-20% penalty is for Shooting INTO a melee, not for shooting while IN melee. i.e. someone on the outside of the melee shooting in.

If you miss, but only by 20% or less (i.e. the -20 penalty) you hit your ally.

I would think you do get the point blank bonus though.

I hope that helps

Ok! Thanks a lot, that should help. Sometimes rules seem a bit messy, especially when you live in some non-english speaking country

I guess now I can spice up the game

Zakalwe said:

Uhh... no.

Chester said:

Uhh...Yes. But you could house rule that, of course.

Stormast said:

Hmmm, I actually can't find the reference that specifies single shot now but I have definitely read it somewhere. I am aware that a response from the game designers in another thread (a few months ago) specified single shots only but it's not in the eratta a far as I can tell.

@YuriPRIME, only too happy to help, as an English speaker I've always had things pretty easy in that regard. Make sure you download the Eratta (3.0) from the FFG DH support page here:

http://new.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_minisite_sec.asp?eidm=50&esem=4

It will help clarify a number of rules.

Epic thread about whether it's single shot or not in melee here:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=70&efcid=3&efidt=432456&efpag=0

Game designer says single shot only, RAW do not specify. Maybe we will see a clarification in Black Crusade.

I think though that unless you have a melee weapon in your other hand, or use your gun as an improvised melee weapon (and therefore cannot shoot with it) you count as unarmed in melee.

Probably shouldn't resurrect that old thread though

Dark Heresy did not limit you to single shot when in melee, only that you could only use a pistol (and you don't get the point blank range to hit bonus). Therefore you could use semi or full auto burst. Interestingly it also doesn't disallow shooting out of the combat at others (as far as I can find). Deathwatch, on the other hand specifies (either in the original rules or in the errata... or both) that it 1) has to be a standard attack (which means single shot only) and that 2) it has to be at the target you are engaged with.

When asked, someone from Fantasy Flight said that single shot only also applies to Dark Heresy. Personally I will be ignoring that ruling, at least for Dark Heresy.

I cannot remember what is specified in RT.

borithan said:

There was no "also." Black Industries said single shot only, FFG said single shot only after it came out, and consistently has said single shot only (recently clarified to be a standard attack to allow gunslingers to shoot once with each pistol) every single time they're asked, no matter which iteration of 40kRPG is being asked about.

Disagree and houserule if you want (I do, to allow non-burst full actions like dual shot), but single shot per pistol is how it works.

Whoops, should be "Black Industries said single shot only after it came out, FFG said single shot only after they took over..."

Curse you to the depths of the warp, lack of an edit feature!