If this has been covered before, forgive me, but i'm interested into what happens when Loyalist marines become Traitors, and how one could make that happen anyway. What happens when a Blood Angel Goes Rogue, Or when a Space Wolf starts liking killing much more than he likes doing the Emperor's bidding? Specifically, I'd like some ideas for CSMs from the DW playable chapters, and how they might end up on the, ahem, *other* side of the fight.
Gillam Harrow said:
If this has been covered before, forgive me, but i'm interested into what happens when Loyalist marines become Traitors, and how one could make that happen anyway. What happens when a Blood Angel Goes Rogue, Or when a Space Wolf starts liking killing much more than he likes doing the Emperor's bidding? Specifically, I'd like some ideas for CSMs from the DW playable chapters, and how they might end up on the, ahem, *other* side of the fight.
Basically, choose the appropriate CSM archetype according to character's backstory, then use whatever customization options the full system allows to make him feel like a Marine from a given Chapter.
In other words, eyeball it and fine-tune until it looks acceptable.
Could you be a bit more specific? Are you searching for story hooks why a marine would turn? The most fitting mechanics to represent him as a character? The reaction of the Imperium?
What happens is that it "Doesn't Happen" and if the Dark Angels are anything to go by, it only happens at the very highest levels of the command structure and they have trusted members of the chapter hunt the recidivist down. Torture them to find out why and eventually kill them, anyone who knows about them and burn all the evidence that nothing ever happened.
Marine Chapters are pretty high up on the top 5 of things you don't want annoyed with you. They will f**k you up!
MKX said:
What happens is that it "Doesn't Happen" and if the Dark Angels are anything to go by, it only happens at the very highest levels of the command structure and they have trusted members of the chapter hunt the recidivist down. Torture them to find out why and eventually kill them, anyone who knows about them and burn all the evidence that nothing ever happened.
Marine Chapters are pretty high up on the top 5 of things you don't want annoyed with you. They will f**k you up!
That's simply wrong.
There's a very nice short story in the latest Chaos Space Marine Codex that tells the story of how a small squad of loyal (I do not remember which chapter they belong to) fall to chaos. It's a pretty cool piece actually.
In more "recent" years there's the Badab War which saw several chapters take up arms against the Imperium. Most later saw the error of their ways and were sent on looong crusades of repention. The Astral Claws wholly turned their backs on the Imperium and became true traitors.
Most would form their own warbands and wreck havok in the name of Chaos probabley, or go join the Red Corsairs in the Maelstrom, or try and make their way to the Eye of Terror. Chapters though don't particularly like it when it happens, and would probably try and hunt the tratiors down and call them to task, so mechnacially Enemy(Chapter) should definatly feature.
MKX said:
What happens is that it "Doesn't Happen" and if the Dark Angels are anything to go by, it only happens at the very highest levels of the command structure and they have trusted members of the chapter hunt the recidivist down. Torture them to find out why and eventually kill them, anyone who knows about them and burn all the evidence that nothing ever happened.
Marine Chapters are pretty high up on the top 5 of things you don't want annoyed with you. They will f**k you up!
To back up what bladerunner said, you're mistaken. Renegades actually make up one of the two major sources of Chaos Marine recruitment; the other being initiates implanted with Legion/Renegade gene seed, just like Loyalist Chapters. There are individuals who fall from grace all the time, not with enough frequency to be considered a crisis, but enough that it's not unheard of. And sometimes whole chapters will go renegade. The Badab War and the Astral Claws (who are now the Red Corsairs) are the best example of this, but the Relictors and the Sons of Malice are only a few other examples.
Cifer said:
Could you be a bit more specific? Are you searching for story hooks why a marine would turn? The most fitting mechanics to represent him as a character? The reaction of the Imperium?
That's exactly what i'm looking for.
I have done a bit of backstory for my TT renegade chapter.
Long story short, 7th company (guess which cult marine doesnt feature in my armies at all
) fell totally to chaos and started gobbling up the recruitment planet. During the cleansing operation the ]I[ had a black ship in orbit and got wind of all this and condemned most of the chapter including the chapter master to death (exterminatus of planet with all fighting marines)(just to be sure
). The command staff aboard the chapthers fleet made a final decision. They destroyed the black ship totally.
This made the chapter a renegade one. Many millenia later with a long history of "running away" within the maelstrom (yadda yadda lengthy explanation of various alliances) they have arrived at true chaos worship and now hunt inquisitors out of pure hatred. They do not hate the Emperor and the Imperium at large, yet have taken it upon themselves to rid the Imperium of the Ordo Hereticus. Which isnt really much of a help to the hapless guardsmen who happens to defend an Imperial location that might have some tiny tidbit of information on some Inquisitor.
Just as an example. Shouldnt be too mary-sue or over the top. (no land raiders were dropped during this background story
).
This betrayal has tainted their honour in the eyes of the Dark Angels themselves. Given that the event was purely within the Legion itself, and was on a world far from Terra, nobody outside of the Legion knows it occurred. Within the Chapters itself, only the elite veterans are permitted this knowledge
- in the modern Dark Angels Chapter, only the Deathwing and senior officers know this secret. The Chapter leadership will go to great lengths to ensure that this knowledge does not reach the Imperium at large, even at times going so far as to disobey direct orders from Inquisitors and cause overly curious individuals to "disappear".
Only the most senior members, known as the Inner Circle, know the greatest secret - that Luther, the great traitor, is still alive and insane, living in a cell deep within the Rock. Lion El'Jonson's body was supposedly never found; Luther claims, in his near-senseless mutterings, that the Lion is near and will return and forgive him. The Lion actually sleeps in the most secret chamber in the rock, his presence known only by the Watchers in the Dark and the Emperor himself, until the time he will awaken and lead his chapter on a new and even greater crusade.
Source-
Gillam Harrow said:
Cifer said:
Could you be a bit more specific? Are you searching for story hooks why a marine would turn? The most fitting mechanics to represent him as a character? The reaction of the Imperium?
That's exactly what i'm looking for.
From the unholy pages of the Codex: Chaos Space Marines, page 18:
Desertion among the ranks of the Adeptus Astartes is extremely uncommon. However, when a Space Marine Chapter is fully stretched, its warriors scattered across many battlezones, it is impossible for the officiers and Chaplains to monitor every battle-brother. Alone or as small groups, Space Marines on extended patrol can become divorced from teh Chaptern's teachings. They feel their skills are wasted or their dedication overlooked, and from such thoughs grow doubts. With no reassurance from the Chaplains, no comradely brotherhood to give him succour, a Space Marine might then decide that he has sacrificed enough for Mankind and turn to more selfish goals.
This was the case with Sergeant Constantinus of the Sons of Guilleman.....