ak-73 said:

Well the T5 isn't going to do much for him as part of squad. A single model with a 2+ save is nice, if you want to go that route. Although Artificer armor is Hero level, and It kind of makes sense for Famed and Hero level stuff to be limited to your Elite kill team but you could say that's for non TP's to have Artificer.

BUT, if they are going to start with Blessing of the Omnissiah and / or Bolster defence, even if all other things are identical to other kill team stats, that cover save increase to 3+ is a mighty advantage, it'll save yo a$$ from stuff that FNP can't, albeit only really useful for the fire support teams.And potentially having any or all kill teams able to repair your vehicles is something that might turn out to be fantastic. It may not be the no-brainer that an apoth, and I guess the points cost might reflect that, is but deffinately got tactical applications right off the bat.

BTW how are you going to write the Kill Entries? Standard squad with lot and lots of upgrade options or seperate smaller entries for Devs, Assault, Tac etc and pick 5-10 of the following.

Face Eater said:

Vanilla Techmarines have 2+ too. I think a DW Tech shouldn't be less.

Face Eater said:

Standard squad. Don't take the point costs seriously (where they exist), guys, it's WIP. Any suggestions for point cost are being listened to gladly here. Techmarine/Chaplain/Apothecary gotta be expensive. Pick 2 out of 3 in order to force a strategical decision. 40K isn't a simulation after all but a war game .

Heavily modified from the files Mjoellnir put up for download, still thanks for the contribution to him.

Alex

Very nice, I was expecting baby Librarians rather than Chaplins (which don't seem to be that prevent in the RPG).

Yeah, it's all debatable. I think I don't see Chaplains as much operating independently. Plus, as you said, it would have to be baby libbies, librarians scale more than Chaplains, I guess.

As I said, it's debatable.

Btw, I recently read something awesome in the Core Ruebook that has given me inspiration. Page 317 tells me: we need to reintroduce Rogue Traders (+ exploration retinue) as HQ.

Alex

The way the Deathwatch is organised, I'd be tempted to have them work like Assassins used to, as allies instead of a whole army. A Kill-Team would be an elite choice, at a set 5 models, like a Command Squad.

They'd get Infiltrate, Scout, Move Through Cover and *maybe* Fleet. On top of being statted as Sternguard, I'd give them pistols and chainswords too.

They's have the option to upgrade squad members to Watch-Captains, Librarians, Chaplains, Apothecaries, Tech-Marines or whatever. Heavy Bolters with suspensors (making them short-ranged assault weapons, perhaps) would be available, as would switching out the special bolters for melee weapons.

I'd add in some Xeno tech options, such as stealth equipment or that Callidus sword. Possible options include jump packs too, I guess.

Overall, they'd be very expensive, but they *would* be true Kill-Teams. I wouldn't go as far as giving them multiple wounds, but 2A is reasonable, as is lots of gear. I might remove the chainswords in favour of Preferred Enemy, to reflect their training.

bluntpencil2001 said:

That's pretty much what the old actual rules for Deathwatch used to be, back when GW actually had proper rules for them

The thread isn't called Xeno Hunters Army List for nothing. The Deathwatch are just the core here, among other reasons due to the nature of the very forum here.

The old rules are too limiting in the light of the RPG. One obvious reason: vehicles are missing completely. Also: no terminators. My current vision is to make xeno hunters (among which the deathwatch are the core) under the direction of a Watch Captain/Commander or OX Inquisitor or Rogue Trader. Each should allow for a different built with decreasing part that the Deathwatch play in the overall army.

While the usual MO for the DW is small kill-teams, I am sure that on momentous occasions they send in larger numbers. Just open the Know No Fear free DLC pdf. What's the first thing I see by flicking into it at random?

"990.M35

The Burning of the White Palace: A series of Deathwatch Kill-teams are despatched to Vanir and perform a surgical strike
against the Imperial Governor and his administration. The Kill-teams purge the Governor’s palace of all life and then detonate
a series of inferno devices that reduces it and the surrounding seven square kilometres of the planet’s surface to cinder ash. This
event leaves an indelible mark on Vanir’s history, and enters the mythos of the native population of Vanir as the ‘Wrath of the
Black Angels.’ This incident creates an enduring legend that survives even the later collapse of the planetary civilisation and
unto the modern period."

I think the old style is dead. The FFG fluff allows for whole Deathwatch armies.

More:

"111.M38

The Nightmare Lords: The Feudal World Ynnen falls to the tyranny of an Enslaver outbreak. A full eighty Deathwatch
brothers and two Dreadnoughts have to undertake the elimination of the Enslavers. Only eleven Battle-Brothers return alive and
both occupants of the Dreadnought sarcophagi are slain, but successfully returned to await new interments."

Sounds like 5000 pts battle. And I am sure there's more such instances in the supplement. Call to arms, battle-brothers, we need a new army list.

Alex

Personally I wish that GW would just put together a Inquisition Army list book the size of the Space Marine book. With DH and DW there is enough fluff around to support this. In my minds eye I see the force book coming together like this.

HQ Choice 1+:

Inquisitor + retinue - Choose assigned ordo (Malleus, Xenos, Hereticus), choose faction (puritan or radical). Choose major abilities (psyker, areas of experties, etc), Choose level of inquisitor (Minor, Major, Lord) which would give access to power level of chamber militant force (like Watch Captain, Grey Knight Chapter commander, High level SoB, and numbers of chamber militants that can be called upon). Retinue choices would unlock other forces, for example Arbite Judge would allow access to arbiter forces, Stormtrooper Col would allow access to Inquisitorial stormtroopers, assassin champion would allow access to death cult assassins, Imperial confessor would allow access to Fraternis Militia, etc. Radical inquisitor have different retinue options that can open up more 'radical' forces, like cult members, or alien mercenaries. However, Chamber militant forces will not join radical inquisitor's forces.

Inquisitor not required is playing Chamber Militant only forces

Chamber Militant Commander: If inquisitor is involved, Commander is limited by the power of the Inquisitor. Required to have access to Chamber militant forces.

Elites:

Ordo-specific Allied Inquisitor

Senior Acolyte cell: A tailorable cell of acolytes with elite stat block and access to more powerful wargear. Tailored by cell protocols like they type that can be assigned from the blood of martyrs or demonhunters books.

Chamber militant specific elites

retinue specific elites:

-Arbite Mortigue squad

-offico assassinorum operatives

-death cult assassins

-crusader house squads

-mechanicus secutors, etc)

Troops:

Headhunter acolyte cell: acolyte cell with wargear and specialties focused on combat operations.

retinue troops

-Stormtrooper detachment

- Arbites patrol

Chamber militant troop selection

Fast Attack:

Investigative acolyte cell: acolyte cell tailored for investigation. Usually stealthy with primarily ranged combat weapons.

retinue fast attack

- Arbites riot troops

- Frateris militia

-redemptionist crusaders

Chamber militant fast attack selection

Heavy Support

Terminus acolyte cell: acolyte cell tailored for sabotage and major combat operations

retinue heavy support

- Arbites repressor tanks

- stormtrooper valkyries

- mechanicus legios cyberneticus

Chamber militant specific heavy support.

For radicals you would replace the chamber militant specific options with allies options like demons, specific xenos like harliquiens, or heretics.

I think this would be the best 40K army list to represent the Ordos in the miniatures games. Of course is would include rules like allies as well.

Salcor

ak-73 said:

Interesting, could be a proper link between all RPG lines.

Face Eater said:

Yeah, Explorators and Arch-militants. Navigators FTW! Time to dust of all the RT-era minis, heh.

First things first though. How would you price Chaplain and Techmarines in Kill-Teams? They do lose their Independent Character status and thus lots of flexibility, being hard wired to a single unit.

Plus I am still not sure which specialties to include in a kill-team and which to make ICs. I mean, Librarians are normally not attached to a specific KT but remain part of the Watch Commander's officer cadre. It's a concession to the needs of an RPG that you remain on permanent basis with your brothers in DW RPG.

Therefore I'd rather make the Libby IC. The Deathwatch Chaplain, otoh, is an ascended rank-and-file DW trooper, otoh. Or is he responsible for more than one KT? Techmarine and Apo are firmly attached to one KT.

Alex