I've been playing AGoT for about a year with my wife, (Joust only) and have got most of the chapter packs (not the King's Landing Cycle yet) off the back of the HBO series, a few other friends are starting to express an interest. I've got a 2nd core set to add to the card pool and to play some introductory games with, but my questions is this- should I use

a.) Core set decks as they come out of the box or

b.) Core set decks, plus duplicates of some of the cards, making the decks larger, without adding any new cards to learn?

Not all the cards in the Core Set are really newbie-friendly. Some have effects that are a bit complicated or whose usefulness is often not apparent to newbies (Greatjon Umber for example), others require knowledge of the cardpool to work properly (e.g. Call their Bluff). Dragonstone Port is another prime example of a card that is a nightmare for a newb to use.

For teaching purposes, I put together "Basic joust decks" for all the houses. They are based on the CS decks (or, in the case of GJ or Martell, on their respective deluxe expansion), but I took out any cards that are melee-centric or that I thought might be unsuitable for newbies. Then I brought deck size up to 60, using cards from CPs and deluxe expansions. To give new players an impression of the scope of the game, I tried to include as many different cards as possible, limiting most to one copy only, and tried to find cards that are interesting and fun to play. I refrained from using any cards that make reference to seasons or shadows, tried to keep it nedly by including as many of the main characters and locations of the books as possible, and tried to avoid effects that might be confusing to newbies.

I'll post deck lists of these basic decks in this thread, so you can maybe get some inspration. Please note that these decks are largely untested, and might well fail miserably to achieve the stated goal, so all warranties for defects are excluded.

Stark Basic Joust

House (1)
House Stark (Core) x1

Agenda (0)

Character (30)
Arya Stark (Core) x1
Bran Stark (Core) x1
Catelyn Stark (Core) x1
Direwolf Pup (Core) x1
Eddard Stark (Core) x1
Hodor (Core) x1
House Tully Recruiter (Core) x1
Kennel Master (Core) x1
Knight of the Tumblestone (Core) x1
Lady (Core) x1
Robb Stark (Core) x1
Sansa Stark (Core) x1
Ser Rodrik Cassel (Core) x1
Shaggydog (Core) x1
Trident Reinforcements (Core) x1
War Host of the North (Core) x1
Winterfell Reserves (Core) x1
Benjen Stark (Core) x1
Ghost (Core) x1
Jon Snow (Core) x1
Bolton Refugee (RoW) x1
Deepwood Mercenary (LoW) x1
Guard at Riverrun (LoW) x1
House Tully Septon (LoW) x1
Hungry Mob (CoS) x1
Riverrun Messenger (LoW) x1
The Blackfish (LoW) x1
Wolf Pack (LoW) x1
Vanguard Scouts (TWot5K) x1
Ser Edmure Tully (LoW) x1

Location (14)
Godswood (Core) x1
Great Keep (Core) x3
Lord Eddard's Chambers (Core) x1
Narrow Sea (Core) x2
Northern Fiefdoms (Core) x2
Winterfell Castle (Core) x1
Winterfell Kennels (Core) x1
Crossroads (Core) x1
Street of Steel (Core) x1
Frozen Outpost (LoW) x1

Event (9)
Bran the Builder's Legacy (Core) x1
Guilty! (Core) x1
Distraction (Core) x1
Kings in the North (Core) x1
Lethal Counterattack (Core) x1
Winter is Coming (Core) x1
Distinct Mastery (Core) x1
Routing the Charge (LoW) x1
Feigned Retreat (ASitD) x1

Attachment (7)
Ice (Core) x1
Nymeria (Core) x1
Summer (Core) x1
Court Advisor (PotS) x1
Longclaw (ASitD) x1
Frozen Solid (LoW) x1
Grey Wind (LoW) x1

Plot (7)
Valar Morghulis (Core) x1
The Power of Arms (Core) x1
Calm Over Westeros (Core) x1
After the Mummer's Ford (KotS) x1
The Minstrel's Muse (RotO) x1
Respect of the Old Gods (LoW) x1
Holding the Trident (Core) x1

Lannister Basic Joust

House (1)
House Lannister (Core) x1

Agenda (0)

Character (30)
Bronn (Core) x1
Cersei Lannister (Core) x1
Cersei's Attendant (Core) x1
Chella, Daughter of Cheyk (Core) x1
Enemy Informer (Core) x1
Grand Maester Pycelle (Core) x1
Joffrey Baratheon (Core) x1
Lannisport Steward (Core) x1
Lannisport Weaponsmith (Core) x1
Lurkers at Harrenhal (Core) x1
Qyburn's Informers (Core) x1
Raff the Sweetling (Core) x1
Ser Ilyn Payne (Core) x1
Ser Jacelyn Bywater (Core) x1
Ser Jaime Lannister (Core) x1
The Hound (Core) x1
Tyrion Lannister (Core) x1
Tywin Lannister (Core) x1
Littlefinger (Core) x1
Shae (Core) x1
Castellan of the Rock (BoRF) x1
Jhalabar Xho (TWot5K) x1
Lannisport Councilor (RotO) x1
Mountain Refugee (RoW) x1
Ser Arys Oakheart (PotS) x1
Ser Balon Swann (TWH) x1
Ser Meryn Trant (CoS) x1
Kingsguard Squire (PotS) x1
Shagga Son of Dolf (DB) x1
Ser Preston Greenfield (TTotH) x1

Location (17)
Golden Tooth Mines (Core) x1
Hall of Heroes (Core) x1
Lannisport (Core) x1
Lannisport Brothel (Core) x1
Queen Cersei's Chambers (Core) x1
Sunset Sea (Core) x2
The Goldroad (Core) x3
Western Fiefdoms (Core) x2
Crossroads (Core) x3
Shadowblack Lane (Core) x1
Sweet Cersei (AToT) x1

Event (8)
I'm You Writ Small (Core) x1
The Lion's Will (Core) x1
You've Killed the Wrong Dwarf! (Core) x1
A Lannister Pays His Debts (Core) x1
I Never Bet Against My Family (Core) x1
Insidious Ways (Core) x1
Distraction (Core) x1
Misinformation (TWH) x1

Attachment (5)
Gilded Plate (Core) x1
Gutter Rat's Cunning (Core) x1
Rusted Sword (PotS) x1
Pyromancer's Cache (TWot5K) x1
Milk of the Poppy (Core) x1

Plot (7)
Hear Me Roar (Core) x1
Blockade (Core) x1
The Power of Blood (Core) x1
Retaliation! (ASoSilence) x1
Let My Porridge Fly (PotS) x1
Valar Morghulis (Core) x1
The Breaking of Oaths (KotS) x1

Baratheon Basic Joust

House (1)
House Baratheon (Core) x1

Agenda (0)

Character (30)
Army of the Faithful (Core) x1
Bastard of Robert (Core) x1
Brienne of Tarth (Core) x1
Devan Seaworth (Core) x1
Edric Storm (Core) x1
House Tyrell Guard (Core) x1
Knight of the Rainwood (Core) x1
Maester Cressen (Core) x1
Melisandre (Core) x1
Old Red Priest (Core) x1
Renly Baratheon (Core) x1
Renly's Courtier (Core) x1
Robert Baratheon (Core) x2
Selyse Baratheon (Core) x1
Ser Axel Florent (Core) x1
Ser Davos Seaworth (Core) x1
Stannis Baratheon (Core) x1
Knight of Flowers (Core) x1
Ser Barristan Selmy (Core) x1
Highgarden Refugee (RoW) x1
Knights of the Storm (KotStorm) x1
Marya Seaworth (KotStorm) x1
Royal Entourage (TTotH) x1
Salladhor Saan (KotStorm) x1
Wicked Seductress (RoR) x1
Vanguard Lancer (KotStorm) x1
Arena Knight (RoW) x1
Ser Parmen Crane (KotStorm) x1
Ser Guyard Morrigen (KotStorm) x1

Location (13)
Aegon's Garden (Core) x3
Great Hall (Core) x2
King Robert's Chambers (Core) x1
Narrow Sea (Core) x2
Stormlands Fiefdoms (Core) x2
Crossroads (Core) x1
Street of Sisters (Core) x1
Smuggler's Cove (KotStorm) x1

Event (9)
Prosperity and Plenty (Core) x1
Distinct Mastery (Core) x1
Muster (Core) x1
Retreat (Core) x1
Support of the Kingdom (Core) x1
See who is Stronger (KotStorm) x1
Vigilant Stag (ACoS) x1
King Robert's Debt (OSaS) x1
Obey the King (KotStorm) x1

Attachment (8)
Lightbringer (Core) x1
Motley (Core) x1
Shadow's Blessing (Core) x1
Stinking Drunk (Core) x1
Milk of the Poppy (Core) x1
Accepted Destiny (KotStorm) x1
Bodyguard (Core) x1
Knighted (KotStorm) x1

Plot (7)
Fleeing to the Wall (Core) x1
Good for the Gander (Core) x1
Rains of Autumn (Core) x1
Tourney for the Hand (Core) x1
Lineage and Legacy (KotStorm) x1
An Empty Throne (KotS) x1
Feast or Famine (KotStorm) x1

Targaryen Basic Joust

House (1)
House Targaryen (Core) x1

Agenda (0)

Character (30)
Brown Ben Plumm (Core) x1
Captain Groleo (Core) x1
Daario Naharis (Core) x1
Daenerys Targaryen (Core) x1
Dany's Handmaiden (Core) x1
Drogon (Core) x1
Illyrio's Man (Core) x1
Pentoshi Guildmaster (Core) x1
Qartheen Fanatic (Core) x1
Rhaegal (Core) x3
Strong Belwas (Core) x1
The Titan's Bastard (Core) x1
Viserion (Core) x1
Viserys Targaryen (Core) x1
Maester Aemon (Core) x1
Magister Illyrio (Core) x1
Ser Jorah Mormont (PotS) x1
Street Waif (AToT) x1
Disgruntled Mercenary (BoRF) x1
Refugee of the Plains (RoW) x1
Jhogo (OSaS) x1
Khal Drogo (WotN) x1
Aggo (RoR) x1
Rakharo (IG) x1
Drogo's Horde (IG) x1
Dothraki Handmaiden (DB) x1
Dragon Thief (AE) x1
Horseback Hunters (ASoSilence) x1

Location (15)
Eastern Fiefdoms (Core) x3
Great Pyramid (Core) x1
Khal Drogo's Tent (Core) x1
Lady Daenerys's Chambers (Core) x1
Summer Sea (Core) x3
Temple of the Graces (Core) x2
Xaro's Home (Core) x1
Crossroads (Core) x2
Street of Steel (Core) x1

Event (6)
Forever Burning (Core) x1
Dance With Dragons (Core) x1
Seductive Promise (Core) x1
Westeros Bleeds (Core) x1
The Hatchlings' Feast (ASitD) x1
The Dragon's Fire (TWH) x1

Attachment (9)
Blood of the Dragon (Core) x1
Bones of a Child (Core) x1
Flame-Kissed (Core) x1
Poisoned Wine (Core) x1
Aggo's Bow (RoR) x1
Rakharo's Arakh (IG) x1
Jhogo's Whip (OSaS) x1
Hrakkar Pelt (RotO) x1
Milk of the Poppy (Core) x1

Plot (7)
Herding the Masses (Core) x1
Noose and Swordpoint (Core) x1
The Prince That Was Promised (IG) x1
Threat from the North (PotS) x1
Power and Wealth (Core) x1
Assault on King's Landing (KotStorm) x1
Mad King's Legacy (Core) x1

Greyjoy Basic Joust

House (1)
House Greyjoy (Core) x1

Agenda (0)

Character (30)
Drowned Disciple (KotS) x1
Drowned Fanatic (WotN) x1
Godswood Attendant (KotS) x1
Priest of the Drowned God (KotS) x1
Tarle the Thrice-Drowned (RotO) x1
Aeron Damphair (KotS) x1
Alannys Greyjoy (RoW) x1
Ancient Mariner (SaS) x1
Asha Greyjoy (KotS) x1
Cragorn (ASoSilence) x1
Dagmer Cleftjaw (KotS) x1
Desperate Looters (SA) x1
Drumbeater (KotS) x1
Euron Crow's Eye (KotS) x1
First Mate (SB) x1
Fishwhiskers (CtB) x1
Harbor Thug (TTotH) x1
Island Refugee (RoW) x1
Maester Wendamyr (KotS) x1
Nute the Barber (BtW) x1
Pirates of Orkmont (SA) x1
Salt Wife (AE) x1
Scurvy Cutthroat (KotS) x1
Sea Raiders (KotS) x1
Seaside Urchin (TTotH) x1
Stowaway (KotS) x1
Theon Greyjoy (PotS) x1
Victarion Greyjoy (KotS) x1
Wex Pyke (KotS) x1
Mercenaries from Pyke (TWH) x1

Location (19)
Aeron's Chambers (KotS) x1
Bloody Keep (KotS) x1
Gatehouse (KotS) x1
Iron Island Fiefdoms (KotS) x1
Longship "Foamdrinker" (TWot5K) x1
Longship Iron Victory (KotS) x1
Naval Escort (ASitD) x1
Refurbished Hulk (OSaS) x1
River Blockade (RoR) x1
Scouting Vessel (KotS) x1
Sunset Sea (Core) x2
The Iron Mines (KotS) x1
The Searoad (KotStorm) x3
Street of Steel (LoW) x1
Crossroads (Core) x2

Event (7)
Assault of the Kraken (KotS) x1
Assertion of Might (KotS) x1
Confession (KotS) x1
Return of the Kraken (AKitN) x1
Risen from the Sea (KotS) x1
Die by the Sword (LoW) x1
The Price of War (KotS) x1

Attachment (4)
Fishing Net (ASoS) x1
Support of Harlaw (KotS) x1
Court Advisor (PotS) x1
Scurvy (TftRK) x1

Plot (7)
Desolate Passage (TRS) x1
The Power of Faith (KotStorm) x1
Rise of the Kraken (KotS) x1
Valar Morghulis (Core) x1
Many Powers Long Asleep (RoR) x1
Battle of Oxcross (PotS) x1
Siege of Riverrun (KotS) x1

Martell Basic Joust

House (1)
House Martell (Core) x1

Agenda (0)

Character (30)
Areo Hotah (PotS) x1
Arianne Martell (PotS) x1
Darkstar (PotS) x1
Edric Dayne (IG) x1
Ellaria Sand (PotS) x1
Flea Bottom Scavenger (AToT) x1
Formal Escort (AKitN) x1
Harmen Uller (PotS) x1
House Dayne Knight (PotS) x1
House Messenger (PotS) x1
Lord Edric's Knight (PotS) x1
Maester of Lemonwood (BtW) x1
Myrcella Lannister (KotS) x1
Nomadic Trader (CoS) x1
Paramour (PotS) x1
Refugee of the Citadel (RoW) x1
The Red Viper (PotS) x2
The Viper's Bannermen (PotS) x1
Hedge Knight (KotStorm) x1
Ser Arthur Dayne (TWoW) x1
Starfall Merchant (RoR) x1
Dornish Diplomat (SaS) x1
Dornish Paramour (TTotH) x1
Palace Spy (WotN) x1
Former Champion (PotS) x1
Lost Spearman (MotM) x1
Orphan of the Greenblood (PotS) x1
Maester of War (TWot5K) x1
Sarella Sand (PotS) x1

Location (14)
Dornish Fiefdoms (PotS) x3
Lord Doran's Chambers (PotS) x1
Palace Fountains (PotS) x2
Summer Sea (Core) x3
Water Garden (PotS) x3
Alchemist's Shop (OSaS) x1
Lost Oasis (AToT) x1

Event (10)
Burning on the Sand (RotO) x1
Red Vengeance (PotS) x1
The Viper's Rage (TftRK) x1
Blood for Blood (PotS) x1
Distinct Mastery (Core) x1
Parting Blow (PotS) x1
Retreat (Core) x1
The Hand's Judgement (TTotH) x1
Westeros Bleeds (Core) x1
He Calls It Thinking (PotS) x1

Attachment (6)
Rusted Sword (PotS) x1
Dawn (TRS) x1
Poisoned Knife (ASoSilence) x1
Dornish Chariot (TWot5K) x1
Taste for Blood (PotS) x1
Bodyguard (Core) x1

Plot (7)
The Power of Blood (Core) x1
Power and Wealth (Core) x1
Let My Porridge Fly (PotS) x1
To the Spears! (PotS) x1
Regroup (KotStorm) x1
The Breaking of Oaths (KotS) x1
Attack from the Sea (PotS) x1

Cool, thanks for that, I'll try a few of these out- probably start with Stark, Lannister, Baratheon, as Greyjoy and Martell are a bit obscure thematically for someone who's only seen/read the first series/book, and half the fun of Targ is making people's heads hurt.

That's great. Please let me know your thoughts, what worked, what didn't, what did you switch out for what, how's the balance. I have a feeling tha Lanni might actually be a bit underpowered. Tell me how it went.

My my, Ratatoskr, look at you going all Darksbane

Saturnine said:

I don't know what that means. But I have similar deck lists for Melee.

Ratatoskr said:

I was refering to his: http://www.cardgamedb.com/forums/index.php?/topic/207-4-decks-built-from-2x-core-set/

He also posted these on the deck construction forum here, but I couldn't find the thread.

Ah yes, I remember now. Great minds think alike . Although the focus is on different things there. His decks are for newbies to build themselves from two core sets, mine are for players with (more or less) full card collections to build for teaching newbs. A waste of effort on my part so far, as my attempts at proselytizing have been utterly ineffectual.

Ratatoskr said:

I'm sure it's not because of your decks

Game of Thrones isn't for everyone. I still have vague memories of thinking "what is this s**t? this is no fun at all" when I first played the game. I had never played a collectible card game before -- and hadn't read the books back then either -- so initially I was quite put off by the game. Also, the somewhat chaotic play because nobody understood the rules properly didn't help. I'm glad I came back to the game after reading the books, however (though my wallet is not).

My experience has been that only having 1x of most cards in teaching decks is not necessarily that useful, since then the prospective players have to both learn the core rules of the game and a large set of cards at the same time. My competing theory is that running 3x of many core cards in the deck, with 1x uniques to give flavor makes the first few games both less painful (when you draw your second House Tully Recruiter, you already know what it does) and gives you a better 'feel' for what the deck is trying to do (Blimey, quite a bit of these +1 gold fellas in here, aren't there!). But then again, your mileage may vary.

Saturnine said:

It sure as hell is not because of my **** decks, because the suckers won't even try. Bloody lazy whiny eurogaming bores. Lame excuses is all they come up with. "Oh, we got kids, we ain't got time for this anymore, boo-friggin'-hoo-hoo". Yeah, guess what, I got kids too (well, one), and I manage to neglect them (well, him) for Thrones, so gimme a friggin' break.

WWDrakey said:

Ah, that actually makes a certain amount of sense. So you're using recognition to draw them in, huh? You're a sneaky one, I'll give you that.

Ratatoskr said:

Hehe. If the kids are old enough, the goal is to turn them into fellow gamers. And if they're too young, give 'em a box of crayons to keep them busy while the adults do their gaming.

Saturnine said:

I tip my hat to you, sir. You're a philosopher of child-rearing. How beautifully you captured the essence of parenting right there, in two short sentences.

Ratatoskr said:

I put all of 0 years experience and 20 seconds of thinking into it, after all. Maybe I should do a podcast.

Saturnine said:

Not sure what you are talking about here. Before my daughter was born I had already given her a plush d20. Now she's almost two and loves my cards when I have them out. So I took some old CCG cards put them in old sleeves and gave them to her to play with. Check out ofiesplace.blogspot.com/2011/04/easter-and-more.html and scroll down to see her in action during her first "game".

goshdarnstud said:

Well done, sir, well done. She's adorable

Built the Stark and Lannister decks as listed by Ratatoskr with a few alterations - I don't have the King's landing cycle, so no Sweet Cersei or Meryn Trant, and I also couldn't find my rusted sword. Stark were minus a Court advisor and a hugnry mob. To make up the difference, I added an extra refugee each, plus a midnight sentry and a duplicate Robb for Stark, and a Greedy Councillor and a duplicate Jaime for Lannister.

Played a couple of games so far. Stark wins both times.

Double Valar feels very destructive. 7 rounds, and probably two of them will see the killing of all characters in play.. Also, with their lack of military strength, I think Lannister struggle to capitalise on a reset more. They can restrict income with blockade and strip hands with intrigue, but they struggle to kill things off. By contrast, one good card after a reset for Stark, and they'll stop you from ever getting a good foothold. Think I'll probably swap Valar for Wildfire Assault for Lannister.

The Stark deck seems pretty good, it struggled for chracters one game, but I think that's just a shuffling/luck of the draw issue. Less sure about Lannister. It felt quite toothless militarily- struggling to hold its own militarily, in order to use its intrigue abilities. Having said that, lots of military characters didn't come out in either game. I'll probably have another hunt for rusted sword, and try again.

Also, Jon Snow (CS) + Long Claw + Ghost (CS) = awesome combination. Will have to use it more often.

Saturnine said: