Cifer said:

I would expect the pleasure-seeker to get lots of exotic knowledge that he can use in certain situations. And I fully expect Bore to be able (given time and a laboratory which weren't available in Broken Chains) to make similar grafts onto whoever he wants. That doesn't change the fact what he does is so far inferior to what someone could do with bionics and forbidden. He has opened a new way of scientific body modification that with luck will take centuries to be on par with what is already available, that people consider monstrous and that carries an automatic death sentence.

Voronesh said:

Is it that much better than Skitarii subskin armour and bionics?

Polaria said:

You don't get it, do you? I don't want them to be honorable, I want them to be proper villains. Look at the title of the game. BLACK CRUSADE. There's a reason Abbadon usually leads those. It's not because he would like to be a honourable warrior but starts cheating whenever he loses or because he sold his soul to get people assassinated who he thinks have wronged him, because he likes to experiment on people or anything like that. He is the leader because he is the hardest, meanest most brutal a**hole Chaos has.

Some of you seam to forget that the Black Crusade briong CHANGE, COMBAT, DESEASES and EXCITMENT!

In our book he if the favored one. Why you guys think we would allow for all of this to stop? We need this over anv over and over....

Mjoellnir said:

Maybe, but he did it FOR SCIENCE!!!oneoneone!

Seriously, though, as has already been pointed out, the thing is, he surely didn't care about all that "death sentence" thing - which, if you ask me, is cool: it's like a "hero" of the prohibition in a way -, for he wanted enough knowledge to best what already exists.

Sure, bionics and the like are super efficient. But if you felt like you are just about to find something MORE BETTER...Would you try? That's the whole point here. Maybe with the complete core rules, Bore will be able to upgrade his implants to an Astartes level, which should just about nullify your statement...

As I said in another thread: wait and see...

A small thing on Bore's work: How rare are the Astartes Glands and when can you use them? In my opinion the answer to these questions should amply illuminate the advantages that might be gained by grafting tissue strengthened by the Immaterium on a human body. If one does not consider the side effects of (uncontrolled) mutation and some quality time of the Inquisition a big disadvantage, that is

Friedrich van Riebeeck, Navigator Primus, Heart of the Void

Mjoellnir said:

I think you don't get it now. Just because the title of the game is Black Crusade it doesn't mean you will get an Abaddon as entry-level character... or ever. Its not like you get to be a Watch Commander in Deathwatch or Dark Heretic in Dark Heresy either. Well, you might get it in latter but thats beside the point.

The entry level characters of the Black Crusade are not, and were never supposed to be, the most bad-ass mofos Chaos has. Nowhere near it, in fact. These guys are mid-level management. Flawed, weak and still in-training to be the greatest villains of all times. There is thing this called "Character Development" you know...

Barbaroth probably wouldn't be boring to watch on the big screen.

To me, he seems more like the cunning sort of murderer, like Hannibal Lecter. I mean, he DID take down an entire company of guardsmen.

I played Babaroth in Broken Chains. And I liked it.

Contrary to other characters he's a blank slate, you can play him in whatever fashion you like. He can be the funny and sarcastic sociopath that cracks jokes while hand feeding the nurgle demon with living children. He may be a grim reaper, calmly wading through throngs of enemies and leaving a bloody carnage behind. He can be the betrayed champion, bitter but still heroic (after all he may be an original World Eater). The only thing that really defines him is his wish to kill.

Sure you may play him as a straight berzerker, but he can be so much more. And it's not the concept that makes this character bad, but the way most people will play him.

Kerrik said:

In films, characters that take down entire companies, usually don't do that by wits, but muscle, reflexes and a lot of unbelievality. Less Lecter and more Riddick. And I find these films and these characters quite boring.

is it just me that thinks it funny that a person useing a name with ork in it and finds singel slaterfest char boring funny as hell?

i`ll restate my point. you you don`t like a charater don`t play him (or her) no one if forcing you too! and remember there are demo charaters. there problem overpoweing real BC lvl 1 charaters.

wait for the book and see what it says befor you start complaining about how bad the chars are jeez

Lord Ork said:

Okay, what of Harlon Nayl then?

Certainly he's killed enough men to equate a company, and I'd say he's a fairly smart killer.

I like Harlon as much as the next Abnett fan, but I don't think he's ever killed a company's worth of soldiers in one sitting. Which is what I think is being attributed to the Berzerker.

Arag said:

This right here. Enough said.

Personally Bore and Astrodel were the ones I liked the most (out of box, with no editing/expanding from the player). Bore suffers from a common ailment, that he can convince everyone to see his way once he's finished research. There have been several scientists in our own time that have broken protocol, used experimental treatments and such, convincing themselves that it would work and when everyone else saw it they'd think it's okay.
Sure, they know about others that have tried and failed, but they always think of themselves as special snowflakes that rules don't really apply to, that's for the less skilled people.
Astrodel suffers from hubris and stumpling on his life goal, excelling in martial prowess. Of course, should he falter and found wanting he's not willing to die for it. Think it was an american general who said "Principle is all well and good, but no one wants to loose on principle". Small play of words giving it two meanings, but I think Astrodel shows the meaning. He wants to have principles, but dying for them when he has the choice not to is hard to swallow.

Never thought of the zerker like that! Interesting view on him.

redhead22 said:

Ha,ha. Good point.

I have always found than orcs are cool. And I find amusing the title "Lord" with an orc.

Anyway, I think that a RPG campaign of orks characters could be funny at the beginning, but would end being boring if it lasted. Unless orks are played with a bit of brains, or the GM is a genius.

Now you've done it, you've broken the forum. I hope you can live with yourself after that.

bladerunner_35 said:

What those guys said.

I have to agree with our compatriots about Barbaroth. I can see no reason why Khorne berserkers have to be played as a 1 dimensional killing machine.

After all, Norse berserks did not run around ALL the time killing everything, how would they steal the gold or get the harvest in?

Our Barbaroth was played as rather suave & urban when not slaughtering things, After one encounter he looked at the spikes on one of his chain axes pointed to it & said "****, think I chipped a nail."

Ciro basically not only stole the kitchen table, he tried stealing the entire kitchen. When ever we wanted to something there was a good chance we would not find it, & Ciro would hand it to us. A complete kleptomaniac.

Hephatastius (it is I) & Barbaroth made a good team, after the berzerk had dimembered things, I would start putting them back together, mixing & matching for the best combination. By the end of the adventure, I had a servitor pulling a trolly with intresting 'bits'.

Nina was played as the spoiled child, except she had a betsy wetsy doll in a fairy dress.

Sincerely;

Dracurian

8-)