Please clarify the following as my playgroup is confused by some other posts that have been made about Deadly.

The scenario:

Player A makes a military challenge using an attacker with Deadly. Player B defends with a character(Renly) that has a duplicate attached. Player A wins the challenge. We then resolve the claim and Player B chooses to use the character he defended with (Renly) and then saves that character using the duplicate. Now Deadly is resolved and this is where the confusion sets in.

Since Renly is still in play can be chosen for Deadly and thus be killed twice?

On a side note is there an official rules guy/gal that posts to these forums that gives official rules answers?

tijuanadagger said:

Yes, he will be killed twice. In the timing flowchart, claim happens before deadly. Claim (and indeed a whole bunch of other stuff) must be completely fulfilled before deadly even kicks in. Check the latest FAQ in the support section for a better understanding of the game.

I am not sure if Nate is on the forums, but he's the official rules guy. If you want an official answer, you will need to use the Rules Questions link located right at the bottom of the page.

the1andonlime said:

However, most rules questions can be answered out of the Core Rules book and the FAQ. What happens on this board is usually help analyzing the situation and making sure all aspects of those documents are properly applied. You don't usually get someone from FFG officially saying "yes, that's what happens when you apply the rules," but we don't usually need someone to endorse the interpretation directly. Logical reasoning is enough 90+% of the time.

the1andonlime said:

Just to avoid confusion: He is not killed twice (it's illegal). Point is, when you use a save response, he is still participating and still lives, that's why deadly kills him.

Rogue30 said:

Hey,

Does this apply to other save responses?

Like events card/ Maesters to save a participate character from dying of deadly effect ?

Thanks

It all happens sequentially.

In this situation Claim is resolved first (because deadly says it happens "After" the challenge). Choose your character to die, you may choose to save that character at this point.
Once that is settled you then move onto the next thing to be resolved which is deadly. you look at whatever characters you have that participated in the challenge that arent dead/dying. Whether it is the Renly that you saved, or if you didnt save him anyone else that you had participating (Or in the case that there is no one left, no one). Choose a character to die to deadly, and then you get the opportunity to save.

Basically, there isnt arent specific "windows" to play saves in the challenge sequence. Only that whenever a character would die (claim, deadly, event, anything), you can play a response to save it. After which you continue as if it never happened. You just have to remember to resolve it all in the correct order.

So to answer your question: Yes.

Edit: I might have gone off on a tangent here, but... Yes; events/maesters/whatever that save work just like duplicates only that duplicates are more flexible in what they can save from (They can also save from being bounced to hand, being discarded, etc) whereas with the others, you must look at the card text in question to check that the save is applicable to whatever effect is threatening the character at that time. Not all saves are the same; but most of the time they are "save from being killed...", so in this situation you'd be alright.

Oshi,

Thanks for the clarification.

Can I say:

- For M Claim, Discard Renly duplicate to satisfy the claim ( is it same for using Body Guard Attachment etc?)

This does not "Killed" Renly, hence Renly is not consider died and still the player statisfy the claim. So deadly still can Kill him (since Renly did not die).

- If I use Maester/ Events to save Renly from being Killed for M Claim.

Renly is considered dead (but save). So Renly cant be killed again for Deadly?

Oshi,

Was looking at your reply again. I think I mixed up the Die twice illegally.

I cant Kill Renly for twice for M Challenge Claim value 2.

So for this case. Can I say

-Claim value 2

Killed and save on Renly

Killed another character

- Deadly

Renly can be kill (coz it does not consider die twice)

- If I use Maester/ Events to save Renly from being Killed for M Claim.

Renly is considered dead (but save). So Renly cant be killed again for Deadly?

Using any effect to save will not function any differently from using duplicates.

That is to say. If you save him through anything (dupes/event/etc), he will not be considered dead/dying or in game terms "Moribund".
Only if the character is not saved and really is dying, will the character actually be Morribund('considered dead') and not be an liable for deadly. (except for the case of replacement effects like Bronn, but thats a seperate barrel of monkeys...)

Just another case you didnt mention. Just to paint you a bigger picture.

Lets say Renly and his bro Knight of Flowers are defending a military challenge against someone with deadly. They lose. and Renly is chosen to die to claim, and is not saved. Then, when it comes to the point of resolving deadly. Since Renly was chosen to die to claim and was not saved He cannot be chosen for deadly as he is already dead, and thus poor ol Knight of Flowers must die to deadly.

To everything else you asked : Yes

oshi said:

Thanks Oshi.. my doubts are cleared.

aulitier said:

Just to be sure: Renly is NOT considered dead (because he was saved). Character is dead when he is successfully killed (i.e. not saved successfully).

dead = killed

Rogue30 said:

Winning the military challenge entitles the winner to making the loser choose a character to die; it does not entitle him to a dead character. Saves interrupt the initiation and resolution of an effect, stopping the kill effect (as initiated) from successfully resolving on that character. The character is chosen to die, but the save prevents the kill from resolving. THAT is why claim is still satisfied when you save a character; the kill effect was initiated and the character chosen, even though something else prevented the kill effect from working in the end.