Hi there, fairly new player to the game, and I have a couple of questions that I couldn't track down on the forums.

1) In our last game, we had a player who got a bank loan, then on the next turn, deliberately defaulted on it when the roll called for him to pay it back. He had no items at the time, only $13 ($10 from the loan, obviously). His argument was that, since it calls for "items" and the game doesn't treat items as money, he was perfectly within the rules in choosing to do so. Since the wording is "pay $1 or discard all of your items along with this card", and his only item was the card, he chose to deliberately default on the loan and discard the Bank Loan card, as required, but had no reason to give back the money. Is this legal?

2) Gates. If you move into a space where there are monsters along with a gate, do you have to encounter the monsters before being sucked through the gate? We've been playing it that you get sucked through before the monsters can react, but the wording in the rulebook doesn't cover the situation. It says that, during the Arkham Encounter Phase, if there is a Gate present, you get sucked through, and that if there are monsters present you have to fight them, but the part about the Gate seems to take precedence. Any official rulings on this?

Loving the game so far, also have tried BSG and it was great. Everyone was accusing everyone else of being a Cylon, and during one game (we played two that night), I got totally sucked in by a guy who was a Cylon and then betrayed. Serves me right for trusting him.

2. If you end your movement phase in an area with a monster you have to fight or evade it. Going into a gate happens in the Arkham Encounter phase after the Movement phase so you have to deal with any monsters present before entering the gate.

As to #1, I think that the general consensus is, if you can pay $1, you MUST pay $1 and not intentionally default on the Bank Loan. I would be curious to hear from the our esteemed Rules Triumvirate (Tibs, Dam, and Avi) on this one.

Also regarding question 1, you have to roll a die first- you can't choose to not roll and thus default by choice. Also, you wouldn't make that roll on the turn after the bank loan was obtained (by your phrasing in the question, it sounds like you may not have known this). Of course, you can still game the bank loan system: Get loan, give away all items and money, wait until you roll a 1-3 during the upkeep, default on loan and discard. Bit of a broken mechanic; I'm thinking of adding a house that results in a more severe penalty if you have no items to lose when you default. Of course, you could just get around that by taking a less desirable item (e.g. food) from someone...

I'm also pretty new to the game (so I may be incorrect above) and loving it. Played BSG once and the same thing happened in our game- accusations everywhere, paranoia, betrayal, good times.

I just reread your question and saw that the player did roll, so nevermind my statement about that.

The Professor said:

Um... I'm pretty sure you have to pay it? At least that's how I play...

Hrm...

Then again, reading the card, it looks like you *can* intentionally default since it says do a A or B (i.e. it sounds like you have an option). It's just I never take that option ;'D I always either deliberately default or don't want to lose my items (and will pay).

So... I'm not sure, but on second thought I'd say you have the option to intentionally default on a 1-3 even if you have money (although I have no idea why you would end up in that situation).

YmerejO42 said:

It is in the rules, just hidden away so we can call you a noob

Keep reading the rulebook inbetween games, you will pick up rules eventually.

To clarify your question (other people have already given you the correct answer.

Fighting and evading monsters happens during the movement phase. Entering open gates happens during the encounters phase.

Familiarise yourself with each phase of play and simply fully resolve each phase one after the other. The rules are a pig to learn because most events can happen during every phase of play. For example you can be drawn through a gate during mythos phase (when a gate opens in your location), during the movement phase (by losing combat with a nightgaunt) and during Arkham Encounters (either by entering a gate or by one opening on you during an encounter).

Good luck...

OK, so to sum everything up, you fight/evade creatures before entering the gate. Not a problem, we just wanted to be certain.

On the Bank Loan issue, most people house rule it so that issue doesn't arise, but this was a special circumstance, the guy already didn't have any items (he started with just a few, then had lost them as the game progressed), he wanted the money to try and purchase an Elder Sign item, so defaulting didn't worry him in any way. I get the feeling they're gonna house rule it so that I can't do it again (yes, I'm the one who did it, and it caused a very interesting discussion).

I think one reason they decided to allow it was that they didn't already have a house rule in effect, and since we'd started out with 7 investigators, we needed 8 clues to seal a gate, and we were down to the last two in order to win, so it helped us out quite a bit. Next time, though, I'm sure the rule will be there. lol

YmerejO42 said:

Hmm, sealing a gate always costs 5 clues. The number doesn't increase with the number of players. There are a few exceptions, Hastur, maybe some Environments, that change that.

As for the bank loan discussion, a good house rule would be that you default, then you sum up the value of the items confiscated by the bank, if it's less than 10$ you get arrested.

Tox said:

Arrested in Innsmouth!

Tox said:

Must have been from Hastur, then. I know we were playing with the base game + The King in Yellow, the King was the Ancient One and Hastur was the Herald.

YmerejO42 said:

Or maybe the other way round!

2) Gates. If you move into a space where there are monsters along with a gate, do you have to encounter the monsters before being sucked through the gate? We've been playing it that you get sucked through before the monsters can react, but the wording in the rulebook doesn't cover the situation. It says that, during the Arkham Encounter Phase, if there is a Gate present, you get sucked through, and that if there are monsters present you have to fight them, but the part about the Gate seems to take precedence. Any official rulings on this?

well its like this:

during the movement step, if an investigator moves you have to fight or evade the monsters that you cross. so this means that before you can go into the gate you have to fight or evade the monsters.

but for example, if you return back from other world to arkham and there are monsters on the same location, you don't have to fight or evade those monsters that turn, but you will have to fight or evade them the turn after

If I lose combat check against Nightgaunt, and in location with gate are monsters. I must first fight with all of them (or sneak) or Am I immediately sucked through the gate?

Thanks

RatafakECW said:

losing the combat check against a Nightgaunt immediately throws you through the nearest gate, disregarding monsters where you are, where the gate is, and everywhere else. you go through the gate. no buts, ifs or excepts.

Taurmindo said:

Even if no gates are open at that time ?

Dam said:

I WANTED NO EXCEPTION **** YOU.

sure, i can think of more exceptions than just that one (what about fighting a nightgaunt in an other world where there is no gate to/from, but there are other gates on the board?), but let's not make it complicated. your specific scenario is obvious though, and hopefully everyone will make the conclusion that there is no gate to be sucked through. hopefully.

Taurmindo said:

You came to the wronnnng place to make a blanket statement, bub.

Tibs said:

I don't know, I think there might be some exceptions to that rule ;')