I just started running a Deathwatch game a few weeks ago and I discovered that my players are able to mow down the minions i set at them quite easily.

The group has a devastator with a heavy bolter. Everything dies under his massive supporting fire. I mostly have them going up against tau right now because I like the tau as enemies to the marines. Any suggestions on how to make the tau seem more threaten.

I am not sure what rules you are using for weapon stats. But if you are using the original I suggest switching to Erratta stats. That will help a bit on the Heavy Bolter part at least, though it is still a great weapon. That will also boost the Tau stats a bit, iirc.

I know that Tau are mainly ranged, but I would probably use their support forces alot more, aka the Kroot/Knarlocs and Vespids. They can very quickly engage the enemy in melee, and that will bog down your players in close combat, while you can then use the Tau to hurt them at range while being more secure from enemy fire.

If you are having trouble engaging them in melee or dont feel like using Kroots/Vespids, I would probably drop using the Tau ranged troops as a Horde and run them as individual troops. If you stick them behind cover, which sounds very reasonable they are well protected and can deal great damage better. And then the Heavy Bolter does not get his insane bonus and can only kill a couple every round. You can even have them attack "smarter". If the HB is the greatest threat, then have the Tau be smart and just pin him down (with the pinning action), and then concentrate their attacks on eliminating him first.

If you have Rites of Battle throw in a vehicle or three.

Incidentally an alternative way of running an adventure would be to assume that that Deathwath are going to kick ass. Instead make the challeneges more focused on investigation or 'ethical'/tactical dillemmas.

Just as a note, rules for Kroot carnivores and Vespid Stingwings are in the DW GM kit, though I'm not sure how they stack up against the MotX versions. In MotX, you get a slew of Tau units, if you don't have it. Anyway, yeah, if using the RAW rules, consider house-ruling the Heavy Bolter to be closer to the Errata level if you don't want to switch weapons entirely, if the HB is such a huge problem as to be imbalanced. Or hit e'm with Kroot or Knarlocs (in MotX), as suggested previously. Catching the Dev in melee or otherwise making it harder to get an advantageous position always works.

But in the end, if you don't want to pick on the Dev too much, house-ruling the HB or switching to Errata might be the way to go.

I would generally run Tau fire warriors in several smaller hordes (read 4 hordes, mag 15-20), spread out. This way, its just not possible for the dev to mow them all down before they get some damage in. Also, I would generally have the Tau fall back, and make use of their fire while retreating horde trait. Of course, they are falling back into a trap of stealth suits, xv8s, and well deployed pathfinders with rail rifles. Use kroot and other Tau auxillery forces to hinder their movements.

Its been a while since I've read Tau fluff, but try to play up the two primary strategies the Tau use (Mont'ka, and something else, its been a while). Generally, the Tau don't use fortifications and prefer to use mobile forces. Expect Fire Warriors to generally be using Devilfish. Just one vehicle is probably enough to make the players think twice about an attack. Generally, I would avoid applying rail weapons (or anything beyond rail rifles) against players. Although that does not mean they shouldn't be on the field. Perhaps the kill team needs to fight their way to a Tau camp to take out broadsides that are attacking an armoured company. Of course, this means that the players run the risk of being pegged by a railgun, and that should make them stick to cover.

The thing to accept is that hordes are often "speed bumps" and are more there to eat away at small amounts of party resources. Are you making the dev track ammo? Do you allow constant resupply. By my reading of RAW, a dev needs to get an entirely new ammo backpack after he fires the first 200 shots. And unless he has that just sitting around, he only has so many full auto bursts until he is done for the mission. Obviously, this is still sufficient for most any mission, but is enough to make a player think twice every shot. I would seriously consider looking at the errata weapon stat alternative (although I do think boltguns should have full auto).

Personally, I would not run Fire Warriors individually, I see that as too much work, too much fine detail. I like the horde abstraction.

If you have access to MoX, read up on the turning point mechanic (its also in the demo module).

Does the group have an apothecary? This is probably a bigger issue than a dev actually, as they can bring crazy amounts of healing to the table. Without one, a horde is just fine dealing 1-3 points of damage to a marine, with one, players will need to take at least 7+ wounds a combat to feel challenged. The problem is how badly this can snowball if the apothecary fails his medicae checks.

Also, its also important to add twists and other meaningful questions to the mission. Perhaps its discovered that the Tau are dealing with some other Xenos threat, and it might be wise to force the enemies to fight each other. Or perhaps the Xenos threat is so great that the players must "work with" the Tau, so as to stop the greater threat. Perhaps there are negotiations going on, and there is currently a cease fire. The players will be pressured to either avoid combat, or act so quickly as to take them down before a message can get out.

And finally, the GMs greatest tool; the ability to cheat and fudge rolls. Be sparing in its use, but if the players are having too easy a time, don't feel bad if an enemy deals slightly less than max damage.

EDIT: Also, consider using the main books stats for a XV8, tone it down a little bit (to not be a master type), and throw maybe 2 or 3 of them at the party, at the same time as say, the 4 mag 20 hordes of fire warriors mentioned earlier.

I did throw one of the suits at them the bolter guy killed him in one round.

As others have said, try having the fire warriors apply suppressive fire vs. the dev. Eventually, he's going to fail that test.

If one suit isn't enough, try three. Have kroot jump out from the trees and ambush the dev, locking him in CC, while the XV8s fly in and pick off his buddies.

Have to say if you wanna run some cool Tau stuff, get MoX, its got a great selection.

And if all else fails, have the enemies retreat, regroup, and reevaluate their position with respect to the kill team. Tau are nowhere near a suicidal or heartless as say chaos or tyranid forces. Unless an Ethereal's life is at stake, I doubt they're going to send their troops in for sacrifice. Use drones for that

Of course, if the kills teams orders are to kill every remaining Tau, or leave no Tau to witness the events, they might have trouble.

5-6 Stealth suits should provide a challenge, especially if the party finds themselves flanked by them while engaging fire warriors.

As stated earlier, vehicles are a great way to increase the encounter's difficulty.

Alot of this depends on just where/how the party is engaging the Tau, is combat primarily indoors, outdoors? Urban/natural environments?

One thing to consider is that yes, the players may have an easy time in the actual combat, but they may be hard pressed to actually complete the mission. Maybe the etheral they we sent to assassinate escapes due to early warning. Perhaps the Tau locate the artifact the team was sent in to acquire. While they may kill Tau in droves in combat, unless they specifically hinder the Tau in some meaningful way, the Tau will probably defeat the allies of the kill team maybe.

Once again, cheat. Maybe that XV8 did actually roll an 15 on his dodge check, and avoid 3 shots of the HB (if using errata stats, that means that only 3 shots actually hit, and w/o RF, the chances of that outright killing an XV8 are slim).

And not to insult your GM'ing, but you are giving enemies the proper chances to dodge and avoid hits, and properly using their available talents/skill, correct?

Honestly, if you use the Tau to their fullest, you should be having trouble NOT wiping out the party, regardless of whether you're using the original or errata HB. The Tau have a lot of nasty indirect-fire tricks, fantastic stealth, and the ability to take out a Space Marine with one shot. That's a deadly combination.

Use the killing blow and patient hunter, they work as tactics. Remember tanks, oh yes the devilfish, tetra, etc are your friend. The Tau, who are smart, should hurt marines if you use them as they would behave the Tau will murder the kill team

I'm running a game soon where the kilteam have to go into a forested valley contoled by the tau using steath suits, pathfinders, kroot, drones and fire warriors to to take out four skyrays and the players will have to think on their feet to survive.

Just throw stuff at them that you think they can't handle without losing half the team and watch them wriggle out of it. Doesn't work in most other games, works well enough in DW.

Alex

Use the errata stats, and throw more at them.

Space Marines are stupidly tough and epic, and you need to apply that mind-set. IT doesn't matter if it's too easy in many ways... PCs are supposed ot be that good. Just hurl more foes, and use multiple hordes.

And use the errata stats and changes...

I would add to all of these suggestions that you should see what the players think, if they are happy just mowing down waves of xeno's then let them have their fun. Remember that the game is about fun for everyone (including yourself). You can have that through, as Visitor Q mentioned, adding non-combat encounters.

You can also use traps which the Dev can't just shoot, and don't forget possible battlefield conditions: Though darkness is no real problem for marines, smoke and steam could cause penalties to the BS test, you could also use vegetation for a similar effect and don't forget cover bonuses etc.

I am planning to start a game soon and have already decided to use the alternative weapon stats, but also to remember cohesion damage, which can be caused by; any creature with a fear rating or a kill team member taking 10 or more points of damage from any accurate weapon, a weapon with blast or devastating.

Lastly, remember that the Dev cannot fire while in melee, tie him up in that and all of a sudden he is reliant on his combat knife or whatever other melee weapon he has.

Hope this helped.

E

Have Kroot ambush the party and tie up the Devastator in melee as suggested. Make the party work to clear away the meleers while multiple small Tau fire warrior hordes shoot at them from cover (represented by say penalties to hit the horde or increased armour). Hit and run attacks by Vespids shooting them from above, the sides and behind darting in and out of cover. If the killteam have drawn a lot of attention to themselves, stealth or crisis suit teams could well be employed to strike at this potent threat to the Greater Good.

All that said, Deathwatch space marines really are meant to be very good at what they do. My players ate hordes for breakfast, except when there were a *lot* of different hordes and using cover. And then the team just took their time about killing them all.

Cainth said:

Consider your KT from the enemies point of view. Would you charge a team of squishy guys against a team with a heavy bolter? Or would you get the sqhishy's to hide in cover and call in more heavily armoured assault trrops to flank them while they are chewing threw there ammo shooting at targets in cover. It's a GM's job to challenge it's players and RP the opponents. Some xeno's and heretics, paticularly the Tau and Eldar, think tactically. You should be playing them in the same way. Try to out manuver the KT and don't just throw your troops into the meat grinder... unless they are Ork's.

So before you throw your angry minions are the the players try to conisder it from their point of view. They want to kill the DW team as much as the KT wants to kill them. And as you progress threw a campaign conisder that the general/warboss/commander has heard they comming and will likely send troops specifically to counter the DW threat. Vary what troops you send at the KT and try to guess what approach they will take. Try to forulate a fair way to kill the KT with what you have avaliable, but remeber not to over do it, no one likes to be annihilated by a vastly superior force they had no chance of running away from let alone defeating.

That's all well and good Shocky, but when one of the core items in the game (Bolt Weapons) are essentially broken and make the game un-fun for all involved, then you can throw everything you just said out the window. Bolters, as written in the Deathwatch Core Rulebook, ruin the game. My group has never quit a game because we stopped having fun until Deathwatch came about.

Thank the Emperor for the amended Bolter stats, otherwise we wouldn't bother with DW due to there being no challenge.

BYE

H.B.M.C. said:

Yeah you should prity much use the living errata ruels, but don't let that cheapen what i said before.