Spoilers for DC ahead!

I just read the stats for the Mirror-Daemon the first time. Why is he supposed to be a problem?

His Psy-Powers might be mighty, but since he has TB of 2(4) and only 8 wounds, I think he is "an egg with a hammer", so to speak.

Unless I use him to posess my groups Psyker, the Psyker will finish him very quickly through direct damage. On the other hand, one of my groups includes as Sister of Battle. I am quiet sure that she will always keeps a blessed weapon ready through the adventure, re-blessing it after each combat encounter. She would be stupid if she would not.

What experience did you (a GM who went through the adventure) wit the Mirror-Daemon?
What am I missing?
How did you handled him?

Thanks!

Well, he has the See Me Not power, that makes it difficult to harm him directly.

Also, he will not be alone, and the Psyker might find it hard to direct his wrath at the daemon when wrestled and hammered by zombies and dominated arbitrators. And then there is Skarmen...

I have to agree with Darth Smeg, he may be soft but the psychic powers can make him **** near impossible to actually hurt and he will have minions with him as a more immediate threat. The Mirror-Daemon is smart, why would he pop up in the open so he can be shot at? In a direct encounter have him strike from the shadows, being even more obscured with psychic powers and it will confuse the players and make him a real beast of an adversary.

The " See Me Not" is a good point. Especially since the Mirror-Daemon has enough Psi-Power that he might give a -30 to the Willpower every target of this Power has to resist it. And this will be necessary!

The psykers in both parties (I hope I can run this modul twice) have the Willpower one has to expect with this career (a little above 50) and bothsport the matching Resistance talent. In fact, if the Mirror-Daemon "merely" activates the power, the chances are good that the present Psyker will not be affected at all.

"Other opponents present" might hamper the Battle-Sister (after all, she needs to actually get where the Daemon is), but otherwise I do not see that this will do the trick. Players with a little experience under their belt go for "the Spellcasters" first. This qualifies for both Skarmen and the Daemon. In the minds of my players, the "Daemon" is the more powerful problem and the Psyker will go for it. Bio-Lighting time.

*sigh* It seems I have to hope for "See Me Not" to work.

I do not have the book on me at the moment but I seem to recall someting about the daemon having the Incorporeal Trait, if that is the case I might be a litle tricky actually hitting it with anything besides psychic powers.

As far as i remember The Risen if left alone are quite dangerous in their own right, especially with the bonus mutations they get.

You can also have the Demon hiding behind his minions so he cant be targeted directly by missile attacks (Powers follows the same rules i think) making the minions "tank" some of the damage for him.

Hi Acernis Taine,

yep. But the text states that the Daemon is vulnerable against damage from Psi Power and Holy Weapons. As I mentioned, I fear for the Psyker and/or the Battle-Sister to deal with the Mirror-Daemon quickly.

Hi Bassemandrh,
the Risen are not the thing I worry about . And I do not think that their is a way to hide from a Bio-Lighting. At least, not if you want a line of sight yourself to do something with your Psi-Powers. And that is the crux.

I think I need to count on " See Me Not ".

They need to fight through several floors of enemies, and the daemon need not show itself. It could hide in shadows (the tower is a dark and gloomy place) turning the acolytes against themselves with Compel (best used on feral guardsmen wielding Eviscerators) while Skarmen still appears as the lead "bad guy".

And Skarmen has the See Me Not too... so your psykers need to resist 2 of those. While avoiding gunfire and fearsome attacks by the dead and turned arbitrators, as well as the odd attack from their Compelled comrades. It's hard to go for the "spellcasters" first when you're grappled by the monstrously warped and mutated corpse minions, and Bio-lightning has a range of 10, very short unless you manage a decent amount of overbleed.

Which require throwing a few dice, and I would suggest Weakening the Veil as a consequense of the rituals and necromantic sorcery just performed here

Then there is the fact that in order to get at Skarmen and the Mirror, they must ascend the spiraling metal staircase leading up to his room. A narrow thing that only allows one person to clim at a time, the metal of the stair blocking lines of sight and preventing people below from simply shooting up.

You can't charge up the stairs either: You must see your target, and the last 4 m must be ran in a straight line.

So one person with a flamer could hold those stairs. If that person also has a few zombies, a deamon and some psychic powers, and cannot be seen...

Hi Darth,

thanks for pointing me at the fact that Skarmen has "See Me not as well" . This is going to make the combat more challenging overall...but my problem is not a challenging combat.

My problem is that the Mirror-Daemon is seemingly easy to beat. It takes about one solid role for "Bio Lighting" of the Psyker to take him down. Yes, the range is 10m. But in tower, this should not be to much of a problem.
The thing with "the staircase" is nice, but if they do not see the Daemon, the Daemon cannot see them. Which makes him useless as well. Unless the Psy Power "See me not" is in effect and the Psyker failed his WP test. I actually think about fudging dice roles for this one so the power is activated with enough overbleed. If it is not enough for at least -20 on the Willpower role, I am quiet sure that the Psyker will make it.

What gives me a little more help is the reminder of the ambient light. I tend to forget about such things much to easy. In my books, the fact that the room will be dark (perhaps lit by a few candles) is his best bet of not being seen. I think it was -10 from the Daemons traits ...and then again the penalty for darkness. Yep, he will definitively have his first volly.

Thanks for the input, Darth.

My players are (slowly) headed for the same showdown, and I have some of the same concerns that you do. Remember that "Damned Cities is optimised for a group of Rank 4 Acolytes." (p5)

You may have to boost the stats of all foes to adapt to your needs, and boost the deamons stats. Also, remember (as you reminded me) that the Daemons Psyniscence (+20) skill can be used to defend against psychic attacks.

Inquisitor's Handbook (p 235):

Diminish Psychic Attack
Psyniscience allows you to perceive the
intricate weaves of power involved in the
manifestation of a Psychic Power. Whenever
you are the target of a Psychic Power, you
may make a Very Hard (–30) Psyniscience
Test. If you succeed, you negate the effects
of any of the power’s Overbleed.

The daemon already has a WP of 70, which gives a Psynisciense of 90. This results in a 60% chance of negating overbleed on all powers directed at the deamon.

Without Overbleed, Biolightning will have range 10m, and only score one hit for d10+WPB.

Darth Smeg said:

GOOD POINT...but established early on in my game that I will not use this special rule. Cannot take it back now

Please let me know how it went for you. It is still some time (I guess at leat a month or more) until my first group will stumble into this mess. I still have pretty time to learn from your fai...ehm...experiences!

Who said daemons have to play by the same rules as mere mortals?

My group will be playing on thursday, but I doubt we'll get to the end. Then theres summer vacation, so I'm guessing another month or so. But I'll keep you posted

Darth Smeg said:

Me.

No, seriously. If I would want to give the Mirror Daemon some extra, I would do it in the form of a trait. But after all, this topic was meant to lighten me about the fact that this is not necessary for the survival of the Daemon past the first round of combat.

Which will be due to darkness *hrhrhrrhrhr*

This is probobly a moot point by now, but in my opinion, the most effective way to use the demon is to have it posses, one of it's own people. It can then use it's new flesh-suit to unleash it's powers on the acolytes, and if they manage to kill the hapeless trooper/demon, throw a few roadblocks in their way, giving the demon time to get back into the mirror, rest for awhile (1 hour I belive) and posses another one.

Fun times for all!

from france

why don't you reverse the problem? it is you the gm. you defined the fact. empower the the deamon make it more like you want. if a player complained that it has read the book and the deamon is not like you described just tell him that it is your prerogative to adapt.

you say that the fight is not a problem? well downplayed it, instead make the deamon a more acceptable challenge. first give him more point. deamon hunter (wrongly for me ) say that there is no greater deamon of the unaligned chaos. make him either a stronger unaligned minor deamon or a greater unique unaligned deamon or aligned him with one of the four great god. in this case i will favor tzeentch or slanesh. after all with that came specific flavor and power. after all he has the "power" to turn the planet even the sector a living hell.

yes he is in a weakened shape but is weaken shape can still be stronger than it is.

well just a idea late at night so forgive me to not go in details and be a little confused. plus i don't have the book with me.

I just took the rather straightforward solution of buffing the Mirror-daemon's stat block and pushed up it's Psy-Rating. My group is an Ascended Ordo Malleus group, so the daemon really needed some help. The PCs managed to rally Constantine and the remaining loyal Arbites for an assault on the Folly and had organized efficient Arbites shield-walls (Combat shotgun clipped into shield bracket, shield braced, troopers delaying to act on the same initiative so the wall remains intact at all times) so of course the Mirror-daemon had to posess one of the troopers! It also would time other attacks to coincide with a wave of Risen and Corpse Arbiters, then flit through solid walls to make good it's continued survival. He held out fairly well for a time before getting spanked back into his mirror-prison.

When I ran the climax of Damned Cities, I've portrayed the Mirror Daemon above all as a moral threat, a seeping taint that could corrupt the PCs.

He is not the end-of-the-level boss, that's Colchis Skarmen - who puts up a good fight with this psychic powers, equipment, skills and minions. The Mirror Daemon is the whisper in his ear, a liar and a deceiver, and the fact that he is trapped in the mirror makes it clear right away that he is not meant to be in a stand up fight.

He freaked out my PCs so badly they threw a cloth over the mirror and refused to look directly into it Needless to say they decided to destroy the mirror (GMs : think of a way how this should be accomplished!) and not bargain with the daemon.

The Laughing God said:

In the case of my group it was a curt "Request denied!" and a single Psycannon bolt shell fired into the mirror. That broke the mirror just fine... and exactly 13 mirror fragments crashed to the ground (in different shapes than the previous fragments!)