i dont think this game will ever be completely balanced too many cards and possibilities for them to possibly balance it all but the ban has certainly show that ffg is tryin to at least attempt to balance the game and for that i comend them but it seems that my fave chaos is now op but in all honesty maim kill burn maim kill burn

BigV said:

Curator said:

When will you guys be happy? The banning of this card now just will lead to the moaning of another.

We are extremely happy! But i mean that this game will be VERY balanced with this two other adjustement on restricted.

For now it's really ok that way, no moaning. Since this faq, now i really trust and believe FFG, and i hope for the future, one step at time.

P.S.

Speaking of moaning,did you remember Bolt Throwers, Mining Tunnels, Reclaiming the Fallen and Warpstone Excavation? Well, at that time we "italians" (as you say) did not say a word. When we "moan" we do that for a reason. Think about that.

Orc/Skaven rush dominance was fixed without banning any card. This is not the way.

Formal petition: Ban EMPIRE.
XDDDDD.
no,no,no better. Ban all epire units an supports. This crying men still have tactics XDDDD

Dam said:

Almost certainly. Though, if necessary, I think the devs can far more easily balance him than VTHC.

As good as sorcerer is, he's still a unit you can just destroy him (or worse soul steal him!)

He might be good enough for restriction though, we'll see!

TL

Vitamin T said:

after reading lucas' post about why they chose to ban VTHC and not restrict it, i'm on the fence on whether or not sorcerer will be limited. his criteria seemed to be either abusive speed/resources as Innovation/Mining Tunnels/Warpstone give you or the card has to deal with changing the "game state" or "location" of cards (like Soul Stealer or Wilhelm).

Sorcerer does neither of those. YOU make the choice of whether card advantage (not developing cards) or board advantage (using Sorc's ability) is the right one for you. Strong ability? yes, broken? no.

Vitamin T said:

Lol, quests need a unit questing on them just to start working, and are restarted when the unit is destroyed. You can just destroy those units.

@Tobogan,

Actually, with Light of Morrislieb, you didn't have to keep a unit on VTHC to use it's ability every turn. That's part of what made it so frustrating to play against.

Papa

But you can destroy the questing unit before the second counter is in on the quest... becose you can destroy units in oponnents turn, or i'm wrong??. And can destroy de Ligth of morrsliebn before you use their effect. What s problem then??? I've a deck that wins 70% of the games vds this imperial deck. YES ITS POSSIBLE, in the same way i had a dark elfs deck that wins 80% (yes 80%) of the games versus Dwarves decks when there aren't limited cards. Problem: this decks loose 70% vds orc rush. Be brave and risks rather than weep. It'smy opinion

Papa Khann said:

Well, you can fix that with an easy errata: you need 3 resource tokens to move your target.

Seriously, if you are going to face the same deck 80% the time you go to a tournament, it's really easy to win that tournament, building a meta-deck.

@Tobogan,

Seriously, if 80% of the players at a tournament are playing either a VTHC deck, or a deck designed to beat a VTHC deck, that's a pretty good indication that something about the design of VTHC was flawed.

Yes, they could have errata'd it. They could have drastically changed the way it played. But at that point, banning it was probably the better solution, as it would no longer be the same card anyway.

Clearly, everyone is entitled to their opinion on this issue. For my part, I'm glad they banned it. I think it will broaden the deck-building possibilities at the competitive level for this game.

Papa

Papa Khann said:

Then i paid for a card i no longer am able to use. RBT was errataed, was nerfed to dead, but you can still use it (viable or not), now we can burn our VTHCs, we cannot play with them.

And this will repeat, aswell as the flaw of true testing and develop, when the next powerfull deck appears, and people instead of thinking about other possibilities will just copy-paste the same deck, it will dominate all tourmanents, and another card will be banned (because of both, players and developers fault).

i really agree with u tobogan but that is the nature of the beast and next time it will be faster since they alreay banned one card y not ban another ine

Tobogan said:

+1

You hardly have to "burn" them. They are only banned from Tournament play. If every single game you play is a tournament, then bully for you. As for paying for a card you can't use, this is the first one this game has banned. That's what? 1 out of 600 or so? In my favored game, they banned like 6 cards from the same set! That's 6 out of 275. That gives you a feeling of not getting what you paid for, especially when the packs are random.

I understand why the banned the card. It's obviously too powerful in a way that creates completely unfun and unfair games. I get that.

But I just don't understand why they can't just change all future printings of the card. Seriously. Make it so that you can only target unit/support cards you control and make it 3 resources. (Or whatever.)

Then change all future printings of the card to that.

In addition, in every deck for the next cycle, include 3 VTHC and a pamphlet (or something) explaining that the previous card was a mistake and here is the corrected version.

It just seems like the best idea.

They're all a lot of powerful cards in W:I. Tons. But this card was and is a mistake. The entire concept of a LCG seems to easily allow fixes like this. I feel that FFG should use the format of everybody being able to obtain the same product to their advantage.

colormage1 said:

but will reprinting vthc take away another card from these battle packs and make it 19 unique cards or will it just be 20 new cards plus vthc maybe they should just allow us to get new copies but payin for the shippin like 5 dollars to get your new copy of vthc

This is a mistake. VTHC must be: LIMITED, RESTRICTED AND UNIQUE...issue solved

In my playgroup we can defeat this imperial deck quite often, playing decks ready for it. The problem was everyone want to play easily and use this card but actually I think there're other options to win a tournament

I personally agree with your assessment Vamosamorir. I can understand why they went the ban route instead though. It would have required both restriction and errata to correct this card, it was certainly a cleaner move for them to just ban it. I do also feel that their are decks that could beat it, but it was definitely the case that you either had to play it or play to beat it and that certainly restricted the number of viable decks.

TL

Vamosamorir said:

If you all have to play decks tailored to counter this single card, something is obviously broken.

Reg06 said:

Unfortunately is the fate of this game, there is always a dominant deck, and you have to create yours ready to beat him.:

First : Orc rush deck

Sd: Skaven deck

Third: Repeater Bolt Thrower deck

Fourth: Dwarf control deck

Fifth: VTHC deck

THERES IS ALWAYS A DOMINANT DECK , What will be the next?

Vamosamorir said:

prolly chaos between kairos and sot

As far as I noticed (not too much actually, but a bit of playtesting's in the air ) there's not a single dominant deck...

Orc-Reanimator control is pretty strong at the moment, but it wasn't difficult to imagine...But the balance is right at the corner: Caos is pretty strong (with and without Kairos), Empire Verena came back, there's a good Empire list with no verena in it, there are High Elves (I saw a tested list and it's definitely amazing), Dark Elves mill is a bit more competitive than before and, believe me, Dwarves are coming out from the pit...

Oh well...the "usual" rush came back and with the addition of a bunch of legends cards is definitely...powerful!

We'll have the chance to see 4-5 different archetypes competing for the "crown" in the upcoming "season" (after-worlds) when the global meta will change again.

Time will tell...

Anyway, for those who are interested and asked us for some "news", we're testing:

- experimental High Elf deck...;

- Empire no-Verena decks (different versions);

- Caos;

- Dark Elf.

Let's see what happens....

I am FOR a restriction of Verena (and the 2 other resets...)