The Temple of Shallya allows its owner to move a unit "At the beginning of your Kingdom phase..."

Which comes first, the beginning of your Kingdom phase, or counting up how many power icons you have in your Kingdom in order to generate resources? It matters because the Temple of Shallya could enable its owner to move a unit into the Kingdom in order to contribute its power toward generating resources on that same turn.

However, I cannot find anywhere in the rules or FAQ that specify how to handle the timing of the resource generation that happens at the beginning of the Kingdom phase, and actions that happen at the beginning of your Kingdom phase.

1. Kingdom Phase
First, the active player resets his resources by return-
ing all of his unused resources to the centre of the
playing area and then taking 1 resource for each
power in his kingdom. The kingdom starts with a
base power of three.

The active player also has the opportunity to restore
(see Corruption, p 17) any single corrupted card un-
der his control at the beginning of his kingdom phase ,
before any player actions can be taken.

Then, both players have the opportunity to take ac-
tions (including using tactic cards). Once both players
have chosen not to take an action, play proceeds to
the next phase.

So first of all when starting Kingdom Phase you reset your ressources and take your new one.

Then at the begining of the kingdom phase ie : before any player can take an action you can use temple of Shalya at same timing you can restore a unit.

So you're saying the Kingdom Phase goes like this...

1. Reset resources

2. Claim new resources

3. Resolve actions that happen "At the beginning of the Kingdom phase..."

4. Players take actions.

Yes. Note that it's not what I am saying this is what I read from the core rules text I quoted.

Edit :

3. Resolve actions that happen "At the beginning of the Kingdom phase..."

I don't mean that. Temple of Shallya is not an action. It's a "constant effect"

If it was an action with a "at the begining of the Kingdom phase" trigger you should only be able to play this action during the next action window (cf. faq 1.4)

It's better to say :

3. resolve constant / forced effect. (with a trigger : "At the beginning of the Kingdom phase...")

Good point. That's an important distinction.

Interesting, I think I got this wrong so far. I assumed that this card being a constant effect meant that it would resolve as soon as its trigger condition is met, i.e. when the Kingdom Phase actually begins. I intepreted that as being before I return and take resources as this activities imply that the Kingdom phase has already started. However, I agree that the wording about uncorrupting card seems to imply that the beginning of the Kingdom Phase is actually after resources have been returned and taken...

I have the same issue with tako.

Because it's "at the beginning of of your kingdom phase", not "at the beginning of of your kingdom phase's Action window"

And if it's an Action, I can accept the explanation, because action need an action window to execute.

But Temple of Shallya is a constant effect, that's why I thought it can do before any effect of kindom phase.

If designer can clarify this part of rule, it will be helpful.

I guess it comes down to when the effect of Temple of Shallya actually resolves. I think Temple of Shallya is a triggered constant effect. It is triggered as soon as the Kingdom phase starts, i.e. before resources are returned or taken.

Shindulus wrote (if I understand correctly) that Temple of Shallya would not resolve immediately when triggered, but still before the action window . I am very new to this game, but would it not have to either resolve right away, or during the next window? What would be the reason that it would only resolve in between these 2 points?

tako said:

Sorry, too late to edit post. On re-reading Shindulus' post, I think you mean that Temple of Shallya resolves as soon as the action window opens (i.e. within the action window), but since it is a Constant Effect, it would resolve before any Forced Effects or Player's actions. This still makes me wonder if it is correct that Constant Effects have to wait until the next action window to resolve. Don't they resolve right away once thir trigger condition is met?

I do not meant that :

"I think you mean that Temple of Shallya resolves as soon as the action window opens"

Constant effect does not need action window to be resolved.

I juste use faq 1.4 clarification about timing structure clarification (p7 & 8 on printer friendly version)

A- After a trigger

1- resolve Constant Effect triggered

2- resolve Forced effects

B- Action window (no matter for our current question)

So now the question is "what is the at the beginning of your kingdom phase trigger ?", let's try to answer this question .

If you read the core rules part that I have quote in my first answer (2nd section) you can read that you uncorrrupted your unit at the beginning of your kingdom phase (nonthing about action phase like liouken says) but this is still after taking your ressource, even if it is considered to be " at the beginning of the kingdom phase ".

So this is the most explicit description of the " at the beginning of your kingdom phase " trigger I get (from core rules to faq 1.4) and this trigger occures after taking your ressource.

Once you started Kingdom phase before being able to do anything you must reset and get your ressources. FIRST (to use the text of the core rules ).

Shindulus said:

Disagree.

below is in FAQ 1.4 page 7

Phase 1. Kingdom Phase

Active player resets all unspent resources to resource pool.
Active player may restore one corrupt unit.
Active player counts power in his kingdom and takes that many resources from the pool.
Actions may be taken by either player.

So if follow your comment, we still can do the triggered constant effect before take resource.

And I don't think your logic is right.

I see your line of reasoning and I think it is sound, based on the wording of the official rules. Also agree that the action window would not matter here, as it is a constant effect, as you rightly say.

Your point is well-made, however, I still have trouble with the fact that however the section on un-corrupting units is phrased in the rules, the Kingdom Phase clearly starts earlier than this step, since the un-corrupting occurs after resources have been returned and taken, which clearly is part of the Kingdom phase. I concur that the wording of the rules suggests this, but it feels odd that the Beginning of the Kingdom Phase woiuld be defined as a phase when some, but not all activities of this phase before the action window have been taken. To make an analogy, when would then be the beginning of the Quest phase? After cards are drawn or before?

LiouKen said:

Simply say that I am doing sophism on my last post (which is almost right ).

Following your quote, I really believe, (I stop sophism ) that you still restore a unit at the beginning of the kingdom phase but after the reset of your ressource(and so on for constant/forced effect with "at the beginning of the turn" trigger)

I just believe (from what I know from the game and even more from the faq you quote) that reseting ressource at the beginning of the kingdom phase has an higher priority than anything else*.

Unless "else" say that it occures before reseting ressources, but I really think that in this case "else's" trigger is just called "At the beginning of the turn".

Now why :

Before the existence of phase 0 what was the difference between "at the beginning of a turn" and "at the beginning of the kingdom phase"?

The only thing occuring between those two trigger was the reset of your ressource, And now it just allow to get an action window in addition. And those 2 triggers exist since core set. (you can not argue that "at the beginning of the kingdom phase" was not an existing trigger)

It's maybe because I play WH:I since the first days that it seems so natural for me that between "at the beginning of a turn" and"at the beginning of the kingdom phase" there is at least the reset of ressources. Even with the very last clarification to the FAQ.

My head hurts.

can we get a designer on this? Is there a compilation thread of player questions that we're waiting on official answer for?

You should ask directly your question to a designer if you want an answer (mp).

Venthrac said:

Did you read the "Got A Rules Question?" sticky at the top of this forum?

Indeed. None of the documents posted there were of any help, but I did fill out that form to refer a rules question to the designers. No reply yet.

I would say you get to choose the order, as both things occur at the beginig of the turn - in the same moment

Got an official response.

"This will be addressed in the next FAQ".