Hi all

First time poster, I've just picked up Arkham Horror base game (no expansions yet) and my group is having a ball with it. However, based on some of the comments on the forums, we were expecting to get our butts kicked a little more than what we have. So far we've defeated Cthulhu, Azathoth & Hastur (we don't count our first game vs Yog'sothoth because we made heaps of rule errors) and we're confident that we're playing the game correctly.

Our observation is that it seems to be quite difficult to actually lose the game. What I mean is that the Doom Track of the GOO accelerates rapidly and monsters surge as more un-closed portals appear but then we seem to reach a plateau where we have 2-4 sealed gates, 5-6 open gates and a Terror of 4 or so. At that point, the players generally have traded equipment and have at least one person who can easily kill virtually all monsters so surges are quickly kept under control.

What we find is that by judicious killing of monsters and by sealing places like the Woods, you can be on the verge of the GOO awakening for many many turns but, in reality, there is a very low possibility of it actually awakening. The problem is that we don't have enough experience with the game to see if there's something that we're missing that we just haven't seen yet. What we find is that the Mythos headlines of "all monsters in XYZ area are removed" and the occasional sealing of a portal are sufficient to slow the rate of Terror accumulation via excess monsters.

So after all that, my question is, why aren't we losing more? Is it just that the base game is relatively easier than the expansions or are we likely to be doing something fundamentally wrong?

Thanks in advance

I asked the same question after I bought Arkham Horror. The base game is easy once you figure out what to do. Buy expansions or get some custom stuff from the forums.

Thanks for the quick reply, I'll be sure to grab an expansion or two. We love the theme and the attention to detail of the game.

If I can post some initial comments from a newbie:

- The base game seems to "stall" after a while where the GOO has a very low chance to awaken but the players don't yet have enough clues to win by sealing gates. I think that the reason may have to do with the number of beneficial headlines which periodically clear out monsters from Arkham and thereby slow the rate of Terror increase.

- Mandy Thompson seems much more powerful than the other investigators. We got her when we encountered Hastur and I can fairly confidently say that we would have lost without her re-roll ability. We're strongly considering removing her from the pool of available investigators.

- Flying monsters don't really seem to move fast enough to be a realistic threat. We're considering having them move regardless of their symbol (although they'll still get drawn back into gates according to their symbol).

- To be fair, if you had to Sneak more, the game would be significantly harder. We found that out when a key investigator got knocked out and lost some powerful weapons.

Anyway, we're having fun!

Sad to say, the base game is broken. You need at least one expansion, if possible Dunwich Horror.

One quick fix for the base game is to introduce gate bursts:

1. If a gate tries to open on a seal, roll a dice.
2. If it's a 1, remove the seal and add a gate, but do not advance the doom track. Also, all flying monsters move.

Those two rules emulate the gate burst mechanic that is used by most of the expansions.

You could also try playing against Yog-Sothoth again. He's the only AO from the base set who is considered hard. Shub is also fairly challenging.

Yes, unfortunately, once you know what to do, the base game is very hard to lose. Fortunately Dunwich Horror fixes that problem nicely; it's also arguably one of the best first expansions to get, so be sure to pick it up as soon as you can find it.

Mandy Thompson IS much more powerful than the other Investigators! And if you think she's bad, wait til you get Patrice Hathaway! Patrice is the only Investigator we've ever banned from our group for being overpowered. Take out Mandy if you like, but I'd advise putting her back in once you've added on a couple of the big box expansions; you're going to need her then.

Again, that's something the expansions fix, since flyers also move on all gate bursts.

Trust me, once the Doom Track speeds up, you WILL have to sneak more! You simply won't have the time to stop and fight the monsters anymore.

I am glad you're having fun with the base game, especially since that means you're really going to love some of the expansions.

Sartor said:

It's possible that you're making major rules errors. Common errors include trading clues, not removing clues from the board when a gate opens on them, placing clues on spaces with gates, and not having combat end your movement.

It's also possible that you're kicking the game's ass because the base game *is* very easy (especially if you understand the mechanics underlying it).

Here are some fixes I made to it that should tide you guys over until an expansion (and possibly after too).

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=113&efcid=1&efidt=22867&efpag=46

Read posts 695 through 698.

Enjoy :')

Avi_dreader said:

We've been doing all of that for sure. I think it comes down to the fact that, in the base game, once you get a few gates sealed and a few more gates open then you get far more bounces or surges than gate openings. More locations where gates can spawn is an obvious fix to increase the time pressure so I'll look into Dunwich Horror as another poster said above.

It's also possible that you're kicking the game's ass because the base game *is* very easy (especially if you understand the mechanics underlying it).

Here are some fixes I made to it that should tide you guys over until an expansion (and possibly after too).

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/edge_foros_discusion.asp?efid=113&efcid=1&efidt=22867&efpag=46

Read posts 695 through 698.

Enjoy :')

Thanks for the link, will look into it. One thing though, shopping does seem to take an inordinate number of turns especially when the value of items can be relatively low if some investigators happen to begin with some good equipment eg. sword of glory. I'm sure this has been commented upon.

Sartor said:

That's incorrect. The value of shopping isn't for weapons, it's for clue token equivalents (Elder Signs, King in Yellow, etc). It's not a big deal when you're only playing base board unmodified, but when clue scarcity becomes an issue (and time is *really* limited, you'll see why it's important to shop, although I'll admit there's another play style that deemphasizes shopping and basically just funnels all trophies into the science building for speed wins).

I hope you enjoy playing Arkham base at a *real* difficulty level.

Sartor said:

I'm always amazed when newbies claim the base game is too easy and I suspect that, like Avi, major rules errors are being made. I'm doing about 50% victories right now and that's with some semi-spoiler strategies from these forums!

How many players are you playing with?

To Avi's list I would also include the various loss conditions or GOO awakening conditions: like too many gates open simultaneously leaving to a riskier final battle. Too many monsters on the board with the terror level at max, etc.

I would disagree that the base game "is broken" but will concede that it's better with the madness/injury mechanism of Dunwich Horror.

Nameless1 said:

What I mean is that, if you are not using an expansion, it is too easy to control the unstable locations. There aren't enough unstable locations to make "too many open gates" a threat. It's pretty easy for four or more investigators to cover the entire board. And there's no gate bursts. Once you get 2-3 seals on the board, you're pretty much done. In order to make the game a challenge, you need 3-4 additional neighborhoods and gate bursts. In other words, Dunwich or Innsmouth. King in Yellow, Kingsport, and Black Goat offer different kinds of challenges, so they might work too.

avec said:

Really? I've found its sometimes a challenge to amass enough clues to control the high freq locations in time (and this is with the foreknowlege that there ARE higher frequencly locations and what they are).

And this is playing with 3 investigators. I do agree with you that it's smooth sailing after the first few seals on high freq locations however.

I have the rules down - its just my strategy that needs work perhaps?

Cash trophies for Clues at Science Building, don't waste them on Deputy, Blessing, Allies, etc.

Dam said:

Already part of my current strategy. Along with shopping at the curio shop for clue tomes & elder signs, and assigning dedicated jobs for investigators (sweeper, shopper, sealer).

I used to think it was mandatory that every investigator have a least one decent weapon to fend off the chance monster encounter. Not so sure now.

I've come to to realize that mobility is one of the more important traits in an investigator (the sealer needs this to get to clues, the sweeper to clear the way of monsters, and the shopper to pass swag to fellow investigators).

Too often low mobility has been the cause of losing games because we could not cover ground fast enough. Especially with the special mythos card or with Ithaqua.

Nameless1 said:

Nameless1 said:

What Dam said, kind of.

First of all, I don't think there's a need for a "sweeper" you're already wasting a third of your team on that. It's fine to let monsters clog the streets a little, just focus on getting money and items. It's good to have a few flying monsters or yellow monsters on the board because as long as you ignore them, they will keep monsters out of the street.

What's your method for making money? Do you go for early game newspaper encounters? You shouldn't have trouble raising funds for Curiosity Shopping that way.

Are you picking up clues efficiently and not spending them on anything but sealing gates (or saving an investigator from being knocked unconscious and losing half of them anyway)?

Also, I kind of disagree with how Dam spends trophies. I will often get one ally to make the strongest investigator into a top notch fighter. And *very* late game I will sometimes get blessings if there are already enough clues to seal all the remaining gates.

Nameless1 said:

We are playing with 4 players and are very confident we have the rules 99% correct. We were a bit confused by unconscious/insane in Arkham and whether or not you could heal during the same turn if you went insane/unconscious during movement phase but we've figured that out now.

I think, as another poster said, the base game is hard to lose because once you seal a couple of gates up and have a few more open gates then there is a very low probability of a gate openining (ie. not surging or bouncing).

The fact of high frequency locations is fairly obvious, even from just a few games. However, even if you had no idea that some locations were more favoured the fact that some locations ARE favoured means that an early sealing of a gate is more likely to close a high frequency location even if ignorant newbies are playing.

Once you get an investigator who can keep the streets relatively clear (or you get a few yellow monsters on the board) then the main problem comes from monster surges. We seem to find quite a few "Feds raid XYZ" style cards that do a great job of keeping monsters from building up too much but maybe that's just a hallmark of the base mythos set too. Even so, there are limited numbers of truly nasty monsters in the base game so a well equipped investigator can go monster hunting fairly easily.

One question I do have is that, if you enter a location with multiple monsters, you can definitely fight them all and in any order they want? The reason I ask is that a well equipped investigator can seemingly walk into a nest of monsters occupying a gate or street location and spend a single turn clearing up what feels like it should be a major threat.

Avi_dreader said:

I've found Sweepers necessary to clear the path for the other roles, especially sealers - again mobility. Bonus of delaying the closure of the General Store on Terror level 3.

For purchasing if it's practical - investigators pool their money for the shopper. And when that's gone the newspaper for the flat payment or retainer.

Clues only for gates UNLESS the consequences are terrible - eg devoured. It's better to spend 1 (and save 4 avoiding devouring) rather than lose all and draw Sister Mary.

Always opt for Madness/Injury - unless the investigator has few or no clues. That way saves losing stuff & clues.

On a lark I once used the special ability of the Administration building to buy a skill - the result of which was highly underwhelming. I really hate when drawing a spellcasting skill when running a combat character (and vice versa).

Had to bless a character once to help him in his Otherworld encounters.

As for Sartor's comment he hits the nail on the head - without playing a few times (cold) without foreknowledge of the gate frequencies its more likely you will lose. Therefore one has to lose a few times to get the frequencies down pat.

To see new players say that the game is too easy almost sounds like they have had a 100% success rate (including vs harder AO's) - which suggests to me that they are either incredibly lucky or are misinterpreting a rule somewhere.

Then again you ARE running 4 investigators which means they can cover ground more effectively with the same gate/monster limits as a 3 player game so you would have an easier time at it though. But not too easy to always (or almost always) win.

Avi_dreader said:

Am I the only one so obsessed by points that I try to avoid spending trophies since they are so-shiny so-difficult-to-obtain so-everything and I'll never accept being detatched from my little kids? ::paranoic mode ON::

More seriously... never ever spent a single trophy ad the Science Building. I'd think about it only in case something like "Evidence destroyed!" comes into play and I'm in a desperate situation (like a 6th seal missing with the doom track almost filled)

Avi_dreader said:

Now that you mention it I DO see the benefit in recruiting Professor Rice with his clue spawn ability. Only downside to the boarding house is that you need an awful lot of scalps to get the 10 toughness...

Nameless1 said:

Julia said:

Avi_dreader said:

That's very true ;-)

Nameless1 said:

I'd actually go to the Newspaper first since the faster you get retainers, the more money you will make in the early game (theoretically), then once you have someone with a retainer (presumably by the second turn), you can send that investigator to start shopping. You don't really need to start worrying about the gates for a bit unless you have a 5-8 player team.

I would say only spend clues to prevent devouring, but keep in mind, we're dealing with a non-Dunwich game (so going unconscious means lose half your clues).

It doesn't matter if the general store closes. It's very rare that you *need* something from there. Stuff there's all just cheesecake as far as I'm concerned. Money is almost always better spent looking for unique items.

Sartor said:

Yes. And it's very time effective to kill the monsters when they're bunched up. I usually will send an investigator to kill monsters if there are two or three on a space together (if I can).

You'll find that monsters are a little more threatening once you get Dunwich monsters ;'D other than Dhole, there's not really that much of difficulty in the basic monster cup. An easy partial fix in the meanwhile is giving all monsters +1 toughness but only when they are alive. (So let's say you were fighting Shub, you'd actually give them +2 toughness).

Avi_dreader said:

Which goes back to my second thoughts on the necessity of a weapon - it's nice sometimes to have a little "insurance" in a cold, unforgiving world being over-run by nightmarish terrors.

Unique weapons are nice and all (and more useful) but tend to have a higher cost as well.

But I get the King in Yellow/Elder Sign Shopping.